Consider this...

[Traveler]

*Returns from an overseas trip and sees a lot more unhappiness on the boards than when she left*

Allright...so people have gripes and issues and are getting fed up. Ok. Now what?

I am seeing a lot of focusing if not obsessing...and at least circular disscussion about various things people hold against this site.

I am seeing very little of people actually daring to try and help. I know that is not easy...but that is in a large part because we lack support.

To many are just willing to gripe, flame, or even leave for good rather than help.

I guess to some it really doesn't matter. But some of us still believe that the cause is not hopeless and that things can be made "fun" again even for the most disgruntled players.

That said, here are some suggestions as to how people can do that:

1. Don't be afraid to start a new chat plot or thread on your own terms. If there is something you are missing on the site, something you want to see done, by all means do it! It was the creative energy of so many that made this site so great to begin with.

2. Worry less about who is included, who isn't included, and who thinks what...and more about your story. It is the good plots, I mean the really good ones that will keep players interested and get new players attracted.

3. Finish what you start if it is at all possible. Seeing alot of half begun plots and threads is very discouraging to everyone. I know it not easy...in fact sometimes it seems impossible. But I think more player should have a little more patience with their fellow players (for whom IRL matters can often get in the way...and it is NOT any kind of rudeness on their part) and try to stick it out instead of just assuming that as soon as a plot laggs or thread goes quiet it is all over. Indeed even IRL less fighting ensues among people if more people show patience rather than irritation...over anything.

Those are my suggestions to start with. I would welcome any others.

-Traveler

 

[Nugan]

Some very very good points.

I think there's far too much strife and bitterness present on this site, and I'm far from an inicent party in this. I've had my fair share of arguements with other players, and I've also been feeling pretty pessimistic about the site of late (which is why you haven't seen many posts by me lately).

In addition to what Traveler mentioned, I have a few suggestions of my own:

Be as inclusive as possible: To many people on this site seem to have a "little sibling" view of allowing other players in their storylines.You know, when you where little and working on a puzzle or whatever and your little brother/sister came over and asked to help. What did you do? You said, "Noooo, you'll just ruin it!" That's pretty much the way I see many players on this site acting. The fact was, though, that your little sibling may not have been as good at puzzles as you, but (s)he just wanted to have fun too. In fact, (s)he was more trouble when you sent him/her away, because then (s)he had nothing to do but try to ruin your fun like you ruibed his/her's. I think the same principle applies to the site. If you turn other players away, they're just going to become more trouble for you.

Forget about "Artistic Integrity": This is a GAME people. The point is to have fun. Stop trying to have your way for the sake of "artistic integrity" or "setting preservation" or whatever. Game's need multiple players cooperating with each other. If you start nitpicking each other relentlessly over stupid little things, you're just going to ruibn the game for everyone. Let's face it, we're all making Tolkien spin in his grave. Who cares if you're making him spin a little slower than the next guy.

Let the Beefs Go: As any rap fan knows, beef may be fun to watch, but it can get people killed. In ISRP its not much different. We can all have fun with our petty little fueds over some In-Character disagreement long forgotten, but it destroys the site as a whole. We have to start letting these things go.

Anyway, I'm going to stop talking now, and start taking some of my own advice...

 

[Traveler]

All right, Nugan.

Good ones, too.

I would only add that inclusivity is important but need not be obsessed over either. In other words, some will be and must be, some wont be...and that is ok. Every player should find at least one thread or story he or she fits in, but not every thread is for every player.

That can apply to "artistic integrity" too. There should be at least one thread for those who just want to go with anything, but artistic integrity should be respected if someone works hard to make it so.

A person who makes a careful setting for only a specific type of character should have just as many rights on this site as the person who makes an all inclusive story for anyone and everyone. Having only one or the other is equally offensive, in my opinion.

 

[Nevine]

Generally good points and suggestions..

Originally posted by Traveler
1. Don't be afraid to start a new chat plot or thread on your own terms. If there is something you are missing on the site, something you want to see done, by all means do it! It was the creative energy of so many that made this site so great to begin with.

Very true. It's the people who make the site what it is. And we do have some very creative talent amongst us. Take the ball and run with it, even though it may not be everyones "cup of tea" there will be those as enthusiastic about it as you are.

Originally posted by Traveler
2. Worry less about who is included, who isn't included, and who thinks what...and more about your story. It is the good plots, I mean the really good ones that will keep players interested and get new players attracted.

It is most important for everyone to play how they want to play, the way that makes them happy. So long as it isn't disruptive to others, no one should ever have worry about what someone has to say about it.

Originally posted by Nugan
Forget about "Artistic Integrity": This is a GAME people. The point is to have fun. Stop trying to have your way for the sake of "artistic integrity" or "setting preservation" or whatever. Game's need multiple players cooperating with each other. If you start nitpicking each other relentlessly over stupid little things, you're just going to ruibn the game for everyone. Let's face it, we're all making Tolkien spin in his grave. Who cares if you're making him spin a little slower than the next guy.

While it is game, it is also a hobby to some people. And people (myself included) take their hobbies seriously. It comes down to some things that are just plain hard to swallow when it comes to such things as "setting preservation" and the like. For example, I can believe someone works for Iuz (an evil guy in the Greyhawk setting for the sake of simplicity), I can even believe said person may have met him a few times for outstanding service. I cannot believe however that Iuz is said persons whipping boy.

Originally posted by Nugan
Let the Beefs Go: As any rap fan knows, beef may be fun to watch, but it can get people killed. In ISRP its not much different. We can all have fun with our petty little fueds over some In-Character disagreement long forgotten, but it destroys the site as a whole. We have to start letting these things go.

I don't think I'm going to gank anybody online... I'm going to assume that meant OOC beef and not everyone be happy-go-lucky in character.

 

[Nugan]

I would only add that inclusivity is important but need not be obsessed over either. In other words, some will be and must be, some wont be...and that is ok. Every player should find at least one thread or story he or she fits in, but not every thread is for every player.

Oh, I agree, so long as everyone who wants to be in a storyline is allowed in. This, of course, doesn't mean that if you let someone in and they cause nothing but trouble despite your objections you can't kick them out. It just means you should give everyone and anyone a chance, and try to encourage openess and involvement as much as possible.

That can apply to "artistic integrity" too. There should be at least one thread for those who just want to go with anything, but artistic integrity should be respected if someone works hard to make it so.

A person who makes a careful setting for only a specific type of character should have just as many rights on this site as the person who makes an all inclusive story for anyone and everyone. Having only one or the other is equally offensive, in my opinion.

I agree with this too. There are certain DM-set limits that shouldn't be crossed. These should be in the first post of a thread(for MotP) or in the ISRP Info Pages (for the Chats). These are neccessary to having a setting at all.

However, being relentlessly nitpicky is a different matter. If something is legitimately disruptive, ok. But if its just a little stretch, trying to beat the offender over the head is just going to cause more harm than good.

While it is game, it is also a hobby to some people. And people (myself included) take their hobbies seriously. It comes down to some things that are just plain hard to swallow when it comes to such things as "setting preservation" and the like. For example, I can believe someone works for Iuz (an evil guy in the Greyhawk setting for the sake of simplicity), I can even believe said person may have met him a few times for outstanding service. I cannot believe however that Iuz is said persons whipping boy.

See above. Also, it sounds kinda like your reffering to power gamers here. They are a different, bigger, problem than a little setting faux paus. I won't get into them here, because I've already said so much on the subject in other threads.

I'm going to assume that meant OOC beef and not everyone be happy-go-lucky in character.

Definately. Those who know Nugan can vouch that I'm not a big player of happy-go-lucky characters. IC Beefs are part of the game, OOC beefs are a problem.

 

[Varnevian D'Saer]

*Returns from an overseas trip and sees a lot more unhappiness on the boards than when she left*
...
3. Finish what you start if it is at all possible. Seeing alot of half begun plots and threads is very discouraging to everyone [snip] less fighting ensues among people if more people show patience rather than irritation...over anything.

Dear lady, I am trying to put this mildly but although patience is a virtue it survives best when accompanied by additional knowledge. An OOC post that a DM is overly busy for a few weeks, or on a trip, is better than leaving your thread hanging on a question for over two weeks. An estimated re-start date also works wonders for people's ability to last. Although if Acaed is leaving the boards, does our thread have any further excuse for existing?

As for the general unhappiness, bah humbug! It goes in cycles at least it's seemed so over the past year. And varies at any time. The Crossroads Tavern is humming nicely with riddles and other posts, there are a wide variety of open threads on the Map of the Planes, the Rules of Character Engagement let off some steam with only a few taking it too seriously, and there was one major post of a problem with someone misusing a player's char that was straightened out fairly quickly within the chat but brought out of chat as an example and warning to others.

So I won't moan and groan and promise to try harder. I don't see many problems and I'm having too much fun.

- Varnevian D'Saer
:smirk:

 

[Traveler]

Lol!

Sorry Varnevian. I didn't want to say anything until it was confirmed. The actual DM of the whole game is not me. This thread was supposed to lead into that one. But the DM just left wizards this morning...so now I don't know what is going to happen.

Now that I know I will post an announcement.

As for not tellign you all I went away...sorry about that too. There were IRL circumstances I won't get into here, fairly serious ones. But A) I apologize again, and B) I am back now to all my threads.

I may even try to salvage the thread we are all in now...just take the story a different way from the original purpose. We may still have fun with it yet.

I hope you all except my apology for that.

...and now back to the topic!

-Traveler

 

[Tharivious_Meliamne]

First off, welcome back Traveler

Secondly, I agree wholeheartedly with the points made.

Bring in creative energy and contribute to the site as a whole?
Absolutely. That's definately a key to getting this site back on the track to becoming more cohesive again. Only by working on things that can bring even two players into a mutual storyline that otherwise had no contact at all will begin to unify this community. If we don't even try that much, than we would be forsaking the chance. Am I saying that everyone has to do this? No I am not. Am I saying that everyone should try to do this? Yes I am.

Focusing more on the plots than who gets involved in them?
Definately. If you make a good storyline that can bring people together or at least get people interested, that's what is important, not who gets interested. Being exclusionary is what drives the wedge deeper into the group at large and can damage the cohesive goal that should be aimed for. Driving people off because they don't fit the mold of what you want will only make the divisions wider and won't accomplish anything positive.

Finishing your storylines no matter what as long as it's feasable?
Of course. If you don't follow through on an action, those who are involved can become disillusioned with the process and get discouraged with the prospect of joining other follow-up storylines. Plain and simple, if people let things slide, that's when complete breakdowns in communication can happen. It can make those involved become completely disinterested in the matter and drive them off future endevours; whereas completing something can provide a sense of fulfillment and satisfaction in seing something brought to full, and there by encourage further involvement in the future.

Letting the OOC beefs go?
I completely agree, yet again. I've been guilty of holding grudges in the past, I admit that. However, it is absolutely important to let slights go, get rid of the tension, and move on. It just isn't worth the effort that gets put into it when people go out of their way to have a problem with someone over something that happened and is in the past. People can change, and sometimes they deserve second chances. That's true in real life, and certainly true online. Letting go of frustrations or annoyances is absolutely one of the first steps toward bringing things back to a closer community.

As for artistic integrity, I'm certainly guilty of prioritizing this to an extent, but that's because it's something that isn't always easy to let go of when working with a creation that has a lot of time put into it. In the long run, sometimes you have to let go and roll with what turns up. If something happens that you didn't expect, then that's a good thing that should be worked with, not something that should be stricken from the record and absolved from your storyline. Roll with the punches, let things happen, go with the progression of things and see where you wind up; you just might find something you were hoping for in a different way than expected.

And I'm rambling now, so it's off to work on my setting again.... *re-lurks*

~ Tharivious/Brandon

 

[Jeajea]

Hello...

However, being relentlessly nitpicky is a different matter. If something is legitimately disruptive, ok. But if its just a little stretch, trying to beat the offender over the head is just going to cause more harm than good.

I think there are two main things missing in this site. The first is input and energy, creativity. Some people are putting this in, and I can't claim to be one of them... and others aren't. Most aren't.

The second thing that I think is missing is common sense, wisdom, maturity. People seem to have trouble telling when is a good time to repremand an action, and when is not.

As a less big issue, there's the issue of fighting and talking, and what rooms to perform each in. Personally, I dislike the feeling that it's not okay to talk in the combat rooms, and it's not okay to have combat in the talking rooms. Allow me to explain: I think that it's too strict. I agree that, without doubt, combats need to happen away from the talking areas, or they'll get in the way of other people's fun. Most of the time. Sometimes not. I think that sometimes some things are taken a little too heavily by some of our overseeing staff. In my opinion. Oh, but hell. You lot tell me whether I'm wrong.

~Jea

 

[Drindin]

I'm not saying you've never been in a combat. But it really seems that the combats that do occur, would simply not fit in the tavern or the emp. Why? Well, you simply can't have that level 20 archmage/sorcerer/blahblah or whatever it is you play blowing the **** out of your level 18 rouge/assasin/bard or whatever it is you play. Simply put: It wouldn't work.

Not to mention the LAWS of juxta state that no offensive spells or combat are to occur in the Emporium. There fore, your character would be breaking the law IC if they fought there. Then we'd finally have a use for that bounty board.

Same thing with the CRT. Often, you're being thrown out into the Clearing when you get into a fight.

Also, I know as a player, that I wouldn't appreciate having to watch people play out some fisticuffs, no matter how realistic, because I really try to have my characters avoid physical combat at all costs. It would be very inefficient to have, say, Kraggar trying to seal a deal with somebody involving his guild, and then (whilst waiting for a reply) have to watch two pages of exchange while two people try to keep to another rule: Freedom of Destiny.

Let me burn it down for you:

Combat rooms are practically a requirement for the FOD rule to stay in place

Explanation as to why: FOD requires alot more room, since people will dodge alot more. More space is required in words to do that.

Ugh... end of my poorly thrown together rant.