D&D 5E Considering Bigby's Big Book of Giants: How much use did you get out of Fizban's Big Book of Dragons?

[Parmandur]

They said "primal" rather than "primordial", and dinosaurs are pretty dull monsters as it stands. The UA druid was "has a giant pet" there was nothing mechanically primordial about it.

Primal is related to the Primordials, in 4E lore and rules, and hey look...Primal Spells are a category bow in OneD&D...doubt that is a coincidence.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Primal is related to the Primordials, in 4E lore and rules, and hey look...Primal Spells are a category bow in OneD&D...doubt that is a coincidence.

look my knowledge of 4e is incomplete at best but primal had to do with a bunch of land spirits not the elemental gods

 

[Parmandur]

look my knowledge of 4e is incomplete at best but primal had to do with a bunch of land spirits not the elemental gods

My understanding is that the Primordials are both: the natural world is based in the Elements.

 

[Mind of tempest]

My understanding is that the Primordials are both: the natural world is based in the Elements.

yeah, my understanding is that is not the case.

 

[Voadam]

look my knowledge of 4e is incomplete at best but primal had to do with a bunch of land spirits not the elemental gods

4e classified a bunch of the classic Elemental Gods (like Akadi Queen of Air from 1e Manual of the Planes and then Forgotten Realms) as elemental Primordials from the Elemental Chaos.

Primordials were different from the Primal natural world spirits who are native to the world.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Primal is related to the Primordials, in 4E lore and rules, and hey look...Primal Spells are a category bow in OneD&D...doubt that is a coincidence.

The lore for primals in One D&D may not be identical to 4e. And frankly, dinosaurs are already thoroughly covered, along with mammoths, smilodons and dire wolves. And dull enemies they are to fight too.

My feeling is this book will cover creatures that are to dinosaurs what giants are to humans. I.e. kaiju.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

My understanding is that the Primordials are both: the natural world is based in the Elements.

My 4E lore is admittedly rusty, but my understanding is that the natural world is "based in the elements" only in that the Material Plane is where the Elemental Chaos intersects with the Astral Sea - it is the realm where the two overlap, as much "Elemental" as it is "Astral".

The Primordials are explicitly Elemental beings, while the gods are explicitly Astral in nature, and the lore as I recall it portrays both as fundamentally extraplanar forces.

The Primal forces - druidic magics, wild gods, etc. - are, by contrast, explicitly of the Material Plane, and came about as the natural world's response to the devastation of the Dawn War, effectively the world reacting to the rampant destruction caused by the Elemental and Astral powers in their fight over the Material Plane by creating its own powers to kick them both out.

There may be a great deal of visual and thematic overlap between a primordial elemental storm entity, a primal storm nature spirit, and a storm god like Zeus or Thor, but fundamentally they are all members of different cosmological "teams".

 

[Parmandur]

yeah, my understanding is that is not the case.

4e classified a bunch of the classic Elemental Gods (like Akadi Queen of Air from 1e Manual of the Planes and then Forgotten Realms) as elemental Primordials from the Elemental Chaos.

Primordials were different from the Primal natural world spirits who are native to the world.

My 4E lore is admittedly rusty, but my understanding is that the natural world is "based in the elements" only in that the Material Plane is where the Elemental Chaos intersects with the Astral Sea - it is the realm where the two overlap, as much "Elemental" as it is "Astral".

The Primordials are explicitly Elemental beings, while the gods are explicitly Astral in nature, and the lore as I recall it portrays both as fundamentally extraplanar forces.

The Primal forces - druidic magics, wild gods, etc. - are, by contrast, explicitly of the Material Plane, and came about as the natural world's response to the devastation of the Dawn War, effectively the world reacting to the rampant destruction caused by the Elemental and Astral powers in their fight over the Material Plane by creating its own powers to kick them both out.

There may be a great deal of visual and thematic overlap between a primordial elemental storm entity, a primal storm nature spirit, and a storm god like Zeus or Thor, but fundamentally they are all members of different cosmological "teams".

Well, that's kind of silly. Primordials are not Primal...? Get outta town.

 

[Voadam]

Well, that's kind of silly. Primordials are not Primal...? Get outta town.

4e started off with a very cool Astral Sea Gods and angels, Elemental Chaos Primordials and elementals dichotomy and the Dawn War between the two factions.

Primal stuff was a later addition in the PH2, coming in as spirits of the natural world protecting against both Elemental and Astral war teams and powering the primal wilderness class druids and barbarians and shamans and such.

It works but its a little bit of a third wheel in the cosmology, particularly after you have the whole Shard of Evil, Tharizdun, Asmodeus, demons thing as an existing complication on the Cosmology duality from the beginning.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Well, that's kind of silly. Primordials are not Primal...? Get outta town.

Demons != Daemons (i.e. Yugoloths)

Two things sharing a similar naming convention doesn't necessarily mean the two things are actually related.

Then again, they turned all the yugoloths into demons in 4E (except the arcanaloth, which became a cousin of the rakshasa called the "raavasta"), so maybe that's not the best example...