Contingency - Heal?

[Nail]

... I'm just trying to figure out if this was foul or not.

The wording of the spell does allow another source for the contingent spell. That other source could be a cleric....

This was a Wu-Jen 17? I don't have their spell-list handy....is contingency on their spell list? What about Heal?

When ambushed by a spell-caster, Dispel Magic should be the first spell you use!

 

[irdeggman]

First off - only 1 contingency spell can be in place at a time.

I would read the "you can place" as meaning you yourself not you have someone place the spell on you.

It says "you" not "you may have".

All of the examples given are spells that the wizard would cast himself.


Also the rules would get real ugly it alowing someone else to cast the spell was the intent.

Some spells are different spell levels for different classes, so if a wizard had a contingency Continual Flame what would happen? It is 2nd level wizard spell and a 3rd level cleric one.



And since it is caster level - sorcerers have a higher caster level (becasue they gain access to spells at later character levels than do wizards) - so a sorcerer could get a wizard ally to cast a spell on him as a contingency that he normally couldn't do.

 

[Nail]

The issue is (IMO) the way the spell description talks about the other spells:

"You can place..."
These words work perfectly well with a mage asking a cleric to cast a spell, as the word "place" is not that same as the word "cast". I can place a tea cup on a saucer; that doesn't mean I made the tea cup.

"The contingency spell and the companion spell are cast at the same time."
That doesn't exclude you and someone else casting the spells at the same time.

"The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person ..."
Again, this doesn't exclude a secondary caster.


That said, it's ambiguous enough that a DM would be well within his rights to say the contingency caster must cast the secondary spell too.

 

[Fieari]

Being that this is the DM doing it, I'd say he's well within his rights. He could have made up an entirely new spell that does this, or used the other spell already printed. Heck, he could have had a high level Mystic Theurge ally cast it on him. He could also handwave it away. The question is more a case of: "Did you still have fun?" Having a foe get fully healed in the middle of combat, thus extending the combat, sounds like it would have made things tense and awesome. But then, that's me. For a BBEG, I wouldn't bat an eye on seeing this sort of thing.

The other issue here is, however, having two contingencies up at once. Can a contingency spell be in place at the same time as the psuedo-contingency spell? If not by the RAW, it's apparently an unannounced house rule, and you should call the DM on it. Not in terms of "you can't do this anymore" but in terms of "we should be able to do this too". So start double contingencing yourself right away.

 

[kjenks]

Heal is a level 5 spell for an Adept (NPC class in DMG). You should be able to use a Limited Wish to duplicate the Adept's Heal spell and therefore put it into a Contingency spell.

 

[werk]

This was a Wu-Jen 17?

No, sorry, that's my fault, the wu jen killed my dwarf (decapitating scraf), but this caster was a wizard. It doesn't really matter, but we are a party of 11th level PCs, and we fought ~10 higher level bad guys (including the wu jen, at least 11th level, a paladin with a +9 weapon, and various clerics and other casters with elementals and charmed monsters.) When I left we were all dead except 2 PCs, this wizard, and some of his bodyguards...same as usual, he's all hot until most of the party is dead, then the over CR'd bad guys start wasting actions and casting pointlessly, drawing AoO, stuff like that. I'm sure those PCs won the day, but I haven't asked.

That's neither here nor there, though, just asking about contingency.

 

[werk]

Heal is a level 5 spell for an Adept (NPC class in DMG). You should be able to use a Limited Wish to duplicate the Adept's Heal spell and therefore put it into a Contingency spell.

But wouldn't the contingency trigger limited wish, which is too high level to be used?

 

[Infiniti2000]

I agree with irdeggman.

"You can place..."
These words work perfectly well with a mage asking a cleric to cast a spell, as the word "place" is not that same as the word "cast". I can place a tea cup on a saucer; that doesn't mean I made the tea cup.

I think it is the same word. Your example is not a good one. "You" cannot place a spell somewhere unless you are the one casting it. However, I think "you" can place it via a scroll. However, I am strongly against the interpretation that "you" can place a spell that someone else casts.

Another thing that could offer a contingency heal is one of the pact spells from Complete Divine. I forget which one, but IIRC it's specifically at half hit points. More importantly, a cleric could definitely put it on the non-clerical-spellcasting wu jen.

 

[werk]

Being that this is the DM doing it, I'd say he's well within his rights. He could have made up an entirely new spell that does this, or used the other spell already printed. Heck, he could have had a high level Mystic Theurge ally cast it on him. He could also handwave it away. The question is more a case of: "Did you still have fun?" Having a foe get fully healed in the middle of combat, thus extending the combat, sounds like it would have made things tense and awesome. But then, that's me. For a BBEG, I wouldn't bat an eye on seeing this sort of thing.

The other issue here is, however, having two contingencies up at once. Can a contingency spell be in place at the same time as the psuedo-contingency spell? If not by the RAW, it's apparently an unannounced house rule, and you should call the DM on it. Not in terms of "you can't do this anymore" but in terms of "we should be able to do this too". So start double contingencing yourself right away.

Most of the party was dead and just waiting for hours for the combat to end. All bad guys are BBEG to this DM. Not really having fun, but that's not what this thread is about.

We'd love to cast multiple contingencies, but we are far too low level for that. I'm sure we'll be able to later, he allows everything, it's just that argument doesn't help under the circumstances.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Most of the party was dead and just waiting for hours for the combat to end. All bad guys are BBEG to this DM. Not really having fun, but that's not what this thread is about.

Then, as a word of advice to keep your thread from getting derailed like an Amtrak, you should never mention it.

There's nothing we like better than to badmouth bad DM's. It makes us feel good.