D&D 5E Conundrum: Ranged attack sequence/cover bonus for players

[Helldritch]

A lot of combats at my table overflow the 10 rounds mark. The more characters you have in your group, the more monsters/enemies you'll have to throw at them. Thus you'll get longer battles. My NPCs tends to use tactical combat maneuvers such as dodge and the help action to give archers/casters and whatever a better chance at hitting players and to survive longer to effectively block the players from going against bosses and ranged attackers. Of course it all depends on the terrain types and whether or not it is possible to make a choke point.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I would think you are in the minority then as most people who have discussed combat usually have many encounters resolved in 5 rounds or less. There are always exceptions of course, but I challenge you to even look at encounters that takes 15 or 20 rounds even, and would having a "1-minute-duration" spell last the entire time really break anything?

My initial thoughts would be probably not when you consider the standard adventuring day that 5E was designed around. Especially when you also remember that many spells with a 1-minute duration also tend to be concentration (over 85% of them) and depending on the encounter, concentration would have a good chance to be interrupted.

 

[Helldritch]

I can readily accept that I am in the minority. I have two groups of 6 persons. Both groups often have battles that are over the 10 rounds mark. I should add that this is case only with hard and deadly fights. On the average difficulty, fights often stop around round 6 or 7. While an easy fight rarely get beyond round 4 (and sometimes will not even go beyond round 2).

It must have something to do with the amount of players; the way I strictly enforce the 6-8 encounters per day and that my players have learned not to go nova in case a harder fight comes up when they do not expect it.

My games are generaly on the grittier side with a lot of attrition both in ressources and in characters. A mistake is often fatal. Both for the individual and the group. Recently, a 10th level group was TPK because they had let two earth guards run out to sound the alarm. Three times I asked them if it was really all that they were preparing. For some reasons, it didn't dawned on them that they were making a major mistake by not covering the second exit. It took 17 rounds but they died. All of them. At 10th level, PoTA isn't supposed to be that deadly (at least not in the third level of the earth temple). But my second group almost died too for the exact same reasons. One player realized the error and successfully stopped the alarm givers. They are about to destroy the fire temple now and will probably fight Yan C Bin. (for some reason, both groups ignored the air temple. Go figures...).

 

[jgsugden]

D&D is an RPG. A role playing game. Tell a good story.

If an action is allowed by the strategic rules, but you can't explain a sensible way in which it makes narrative sense, you're diminishing the narrative side of the game by playing as a pure strategy board game. You can choose to do it, but I find that telling a good narrative story vastly improves the game. To me, it is essential to running a great game.

 

[DND_Reborn]

That's all well and good, but again I ask you to consider if spells with a 1-minute duration (i.e. 10 rounds) were extended to "the encounter", which for your group might be 10-15 rounds or more, would it hurt anything?

We have 10+ round encounters sometimes at our table. Most spell casters have either lost concentration before the 1-minute mark or abandoned 1-minute spells with concentration to cast a different spell with concentration. The barbarian has to spend another bonus action to re-rage if he wants to, but otherwise we don't see many 1-minute time limit for stuff at our table.

At this point I am going to move this to another thread in case you want to continue it.

 

[billd91]

The monsters are initially all bunched up in adjacent squares. So the way I played them was that one by one they moved closer to their target and after their movement, they fired their arrow. Moving them individually, created straight lines of sight to the first PC target, enabling some of the goblins to shoot without incurring penalties for covering each other's lines of sight. In other words, I was able to have direct lines of sight for MORE than just the first two goblins.

It may be within the rules, but it's also exploiting the unrealness of the rules which never feels particularly cricket to me.

 

[Helldritch]

@jgsugden
And you won't find me arguing against what you are saying. But at the same time, not all stories end well. Sometimes, the bad guys win. Yes they too can win. The fact that you can lose, just give you a sense of achievement that is unparalleled when you succeed. Because you know you did it because you were good, better than the enemies. Not because the story told you should win. Succeeding because the story tells you have to lessens the sense of accomplishments that comes with success. The dice decides. That is why we roll all dice on the open. Nothing is hidden. Superior strategy will lessen the impact of luck. Acts of self sacrifices are often rewarded. Inspiration can be recovered for heroic acts. The story is everything. But not all stories end well... nope. Not all.

 

[Helldritch]

That's all well and good, but again I ask you to consider if spells with a 1-minute duration (i.e. 10 rounds) were extended to "the encounter", which for your group might be 10-15 rounds or more, would it hurt anything?

We have 10+ round encounters sometimes at our table. Most spell casters have either lost concentration before the 1-minute mark or abandoned 1-minute spells with concentration to cast a different spell with concentration. The barbarian has to spend another bonus action to re-rage if he wants to, but otherwise we don't see many 1-minute time limit for stuff at our table.

At this point I am going to move this to another thread in case you want to continue it.

This idea has some merits. It makes me think of the 4ed mechanic (which I did like). I do not think it would hurt anything.

As for the concentration. Almost all casters are taking war mage at my table to make sure they keep their concentration. And yes, sometimes they lose it before the one minute mark. Sometimes they keep it all the way. Again, I really think that if my combats are so long it is because of the amount of players.

Do any other DM with six players have the same combat duration as I have? I would like to know.

 

[DND_Reborn]

This idea has some merits. It makes me think of the 4ed mechanic (which I did like). I do not think it would hurt anything.

As for the concentration. Almost all casters are taking war mage at my table to make sure they keep their concentration. And yes, sometimes they lose it before the one minute mark. Sometimes they keep it all the way. Again, I really think that if my combats are so long it is because of the amount of players.

Do any other DM with six players have the same combat duration as I have? I would like to know.

I've played in much larger groups before. In undergrad I ran a group of 10-12 players every Friday night. The battles didn't take as many rounds (this was 1E/2E, so that is a factor), but because there were so many characters and monsters, actual play time was long.

Have you read any of my posts on HP bloat in 5E? That would make your combat take less rounds I would think.

EDIT: COPIED TO OTHER THREAD

 

[Helldritch]

I've played in much larger groups before. In undergrad I ran a group of 10-12 players every Friday night. The battles didn't take as many rounds (this was 1E/2E, so that is a factor), but because there were so many characters and monsters, actual play time was long.

Have you read any of my posts on HP bloat in 5E? That would make your combat take less rounds I would think.

Yep. But I think the HP bloat is a necessary evil. In 1ed and 2ed there was what I called the 9-12th syndrome in which characters were too strong for the low level monsters, but too weak for the high level ones. It was a zone where most group were dying. It took luck, skills and good tactical minds to go over this zone.

The HP bloat does alleviate this syndrome. It brings its own trouble though...