D&D 5E Conundrum: Ranged attack sequence/cover bonus for players

[vlysses]

Interesting how even after 20 years of playing RPGs, new basic rule questions crop up...:

So the PC group gets into a fight with a bunch of bugbears and goblins in a long 10 foot wide tunnel with corners etc, where it's more advantageous for the goblins to shoot their short bows than go melee straight away.

The monsters are initially all bunched up in adjacent squares. So the way I played them was that one by one they moved closer to their target and after their movement, they fired their arrow. Moving them individually, created straight lines of sight to the first PC target, enabling some of the goblins to shoot without incurring penalties for covering each other's lines of sight. In other words, I was able to have direct lines of sight for MORE than just the first two goblins.

The players protested, saying that given the monsters all move on the same initiative, I should assume they move at the same time, therefore I should give the players partial cover against everyone except the first two goblins. Or I should roll initiative for each monster individually because then more would be in the way of others etc...

Not sure if I'm making myself clear, I tried to google this, but it's quite specific... What do you all say?

Thx!

 

[commandercrud]

Your players are whining. You're doing it right.

 

[pogre]

I usually respond that I would give the players the same opportunity - seems only fair to let the monsters do it.

 

[Oofta]

There's no simple answer. For sake of simplicity, most people (myself included) have monsters go on one initiative.

During team monster's turn I do have individual monsters take their complete turn, which includes all movement and attacks. They can still ready actions just like PCs. That does mean that team monster can sometimes be a bit more coordinated than the PCs.

In addition, I don't generally have more than 4-6 monsters go at once. I break them down by type and then group them if there are more than 6.

I know there are other initiative options, such as having 1 initiative per side and let people decide what order they want to go in, but I generally don't have a problem.

 

[commandercrud]

Even if they all activate on the same initiative, each monster takes its turn one by one. Group initiative does not mean all monsters move then all monsters attack. Grouping initiative has nothing to do with it.

 

[Li Shenron]

There are by-products of the turn-based system that can be either beneficial or detrimental. But it's impossible to play a game where real-time is truly simulated, and even systems which aren't strictly turn-based (e.g. with a declaration phase before a resolution phase) will have their own by-products. As long as things work the same way for PCs and monsters, the game will be fair.

In this case, same initiative still means each monster gets a separate turn by RAW, just like the PCs do. It might be interesting to house rule something different in case of a tie, but if you haven't already taken such house rule in place I'd stick with the default.

 

[atanakar]

You did it right. I'm guessing the players are happy when «all the monsters» go last, so they shouldn't complain when «all the monsters» activate first.

 

[vlysses]

thank you for the many thoughtful replies

 

[Dausuul]

You're right, they're wrong. Each goblin takes its turn separately. Rolling initiative as a group works the same as if the goblins had all just happened to roll the same number on the d20.

Ask the players if they would like you to enforce similar rules when two of them happen to roll the same initiative. (Except, maybe don't do that, because they might say yes and then you've opened a horrendous can of worms. D&D is really, really not set up for simultaneous turns.)

 

[Helldritch]

Moving them individually, created straight lines of sight to the first PC target, enabling some of the goblins to shoot without incurring penalties for covering each other's lines of sight. In other words, I was able to have direct lines of sight for MORE than just the first two goblins.

????
I was under the impression that these penalties only applied IF an ally was in hand to hand with your target. Did I get it wrong?

Example: A1 is in hand to hand with B1. A2 wants to shoot B1 then a cover penalty applies. If A2 wants to shoot B2 10 feet further than B1 then no cover penalty should apply.
Do I get it wrong?
Edit: Added my example.