Conversion: Fantasy Rules into Star Frontiers

Here is a rough draft of the magic section that I am developing. I have not written any specific 'spells' or Spell Skills as I have been calling them. The basic idea to that is to create a suite of powers following a theme of sort, but really open ended so that players can contribute by creating their own Spell Skills. A Force Magic Spell Skill might have 6 distinct functions all loosely related to Force (a magic missile, mage armor, floating disk, etc.) acquiring the specific functions as levels in the Spell Skill are achieved. My gut feeling says that Magic Skills, whether Arcane, or Divine will cost 6 xp (base), but see below for some breaks in the cost of learning.
MAGIC
Magic Overview: these are tentative ideas, likely needing refinement over time as I work out details. Exact numbers are suspect for change, as well as the cost requirements. These figures are my gut feeling, and an attempt to keep the mechanism very simple, while still scaling as a character learns more magical skills & power levels. This is in contrast to the basis for the mentalist PSA that uses a pool of points equivalent to their logic score. I want to rewrite the Psionic PSA (mentalist) to match this revised system when I get things ironed out
The following sections are out of order for now, info being written as it is thought up.


Spell Points – Spell Point pools are kept track of separately for Arcane and Divine Spells Skills. Aside from the Arcane or Divine split, each level in a Spell Skill grants Spell Points that are kept track of collectively regardless of the number of spell skills or individual spell skill levels. Each level of a spell skill contributes a number of points equal to the level achieved cumulatively. For instance, a character that has 3 levels of Force Magic has 6 spell points (1+2+3). A character with 3 levels in Force Magic and 4 levels in Charm magic has 16 total spell points ((1+2+3 Force) + (1+2+3+4 Charm)). Spell points need not be dedicated to the Spell Skill that they were earned from. They can be spent to cast any spell that the character knows.

Bonus spell points are granted according to the associated Ability. Logic grants extra spell points for the Arcane Caster, while Intuition (maybe personality?) grants extra spell points for the Divine Caster. For each individual Spell Skill suite acquired, the character gains the Bonus Spell points according to the table. For instance, if a character with Logic score of 65 knows 3 different Spell Skills (Force Magic, Fire Magic, and Charm Magic) then the character gets 12 bonus spell points in addition to the spell points he gains from his levels in the respective Spell Skills. If this character then learns Necromantic Magic after his last adventure, then the character gains another 4 bonus points, in addition to the one point for the level 1 spell skill.

The pool of Spell Points can also be increased directly by spending experience points. Each experience point increasing the total spell points by one point. There is no practical upper limit to the number of Spell Points a character can acquire. Some inherently magical races have bonuses to the Spell Point pool, and may have other powers as well that affect the Spell Pool.

Spell Point Renewal – Spell Points are regained through rest, meditation, and review of their spell book (Arcane - see below for spell book), or prayer (divine). During a rest period, it is assumed that the mage or divine caster is reviewing their spell book (or equivalent). Divine casters use their holy scriptures in lieu of a spell books as a focus for their meditation and prayer. After a full rest period, all points will be regained, putting the character at his or her full Spell Point capacity. For shorter periods, 10% of the character’s maximum Spell Point pool can be regained for each hour of study. A character that is deprived of their spell book (or holy scriptures in the case of divine casters) regains spell points at half the appropriate rate because he or she is going over all the intricacies of casting from memory only.

Spell Skills – Each Magic Spell Skill has six levels just like all other skills. Each level opens up a new power (sub-skill), and the cost of casting a particular power equals the level of the power. The individual spell skills and their details are listed in the Skill Section. It is only a basic list of spell skills, as the characters are encouraged to design their own special themed spell skill suites with the referee’s oversight, however this does not change any experience point costs. There are countless sources for inspiration in designing sets of Spell Skills to draw from.

Arcane Spell Books – The secrets of a character’s spell skills are usually kept in a jealously guarded tome or spell book. Whatever the form of book, the writings contain cryptic scribbling and notes that aid the character in their spell casting. Although once a character learns a Spell Skill the character may always cast those spells, a character that loses their ‘spell book’ is a disadvantage when regaining spell points (see Spell Point Renewal). Spell books are often locked, trapped, and otherwise guarded carefully.
Characters who acquire another’s spell book may learn the spell levels contained within that tome at half the normal experience cost. For instance, a character acquires a rival mages spell book that contains 3 different spell skills of which the caster had level 2, level 3, and level 4 respectively. The character (assuming he knows nothing from any of the 3 spell skills) may learn at half experience cost, the level 1 and level 2 of the first spell skill, but must then spend full experience for the remaining 4 levels, as there are no notes to help him along in his studies. The same follows for the level 3 spell skill, half experience cost for the 1st three levels, then full experience cost for the balance, and likewise for the third spell skill (up to level 4).

Divine Spells – The divine caster does not typically record their spells in a tome, however some faiths do have recordings of their usual spell powers. The knowledge comes directly from their deity (or proxy). It is possible to learn spell skill levels from superiors, however self-discovery is usually the preferred method (i.e. full experience cost). When a superior does teach one of their fellows a spell skill level (i.e. half experience cost), it is usually upon the completion of some sort of quest that helps the entire order. The teacher may only teach up to his or her current spell skill level. Although holy texts do not usually contain actual divine spell skills, they aid the caster in the recovery of their divine spell points.
The bonus spell points refer to a table that calculates exactly the same as punching score PS, except using the appropriate ability.

edit: Oh I forgot... As always, I am looking for constructive criticism or commentary on this project. Feel free to make suggestions. :)
 
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Mycanid said:
Sent you an email smootrk talking a little about this. :)
In summary, Mycanid wrote about Divine powers in a Star Frontiers stylized setting.

So that everyone following this knows, I am including Divine magic in this mod, although I was trying to be very vague (and also modular) so that individual referees can determine for themselves how much of any particular treatment should be included in their campaigns. A ref could easily drop this aspect or even all the magic aspects to simply create a low-tech SF alternative.

In keeping with the idea that I will have to include a basic campaign framework with this endeavor, I would love to hear someone else's ideas for a campaign history (including any creation myths and pantheons).
 

I sent this in the form of an email, then thought it would be better in here in order to encourage additional cooperation. So I copy & paste from my Sent Items folder below:

Nifty!! Some comments...

1) I prefer you use INT rather than Personality because of the symmetry of it; INT and LOG are paired. I know you already made it this way, but I noticed your "(maybe personality?)" and wanted to chime in my opinion :-P

2) Since spell points are universal (that is, points earned for your levels in one spell skill can be used to power spells from another spell skill), I don't think the bonus gained from LOG (or INT) should be added for each skill. It seems like a bit too much of a bonus, in my opinion, unless you're going for a very high-magic setting where wizards of renown build up huge batteries of magic energy - in which case leave it as it :-)

3) The spell point bonus by ability score table gives positive boosts even for an ability score of 1%... shouldn't there be a minimum prerequisite for gaining a magical skill? If so, start your bonus spell points there. For example: if you make it require a minimum of 60% in LOG or INT:

60-64 +0
65-69 +1
70-74 +2
75-79 +3
80-84 +4
85-89 +5
90-94 +6
95... +7...

This way, there exists a +0 level, a basic level, for those who barely qualify, and people with higher stats (normal highest you can start with in classic AD is 85 if you roll a 70 and shift 10 points then add 5 to it if you're human).

4) are ya sure a spell point should cost experience points on a 1:1 basis? Seems to me if you allow these spell points to get too large in number it will make the game VERY high-magic. If that's what you're looking for, then that's super. If you're looking for more of a tolkein-esque level of magic, it might be a bit too disbalancing to allow people to buy up huge batteries of spell points.


I say these things because there are no character classes and therefore no simple way to put artificial limits on weapon use and such. For example: if I make a wizard character, there is nothing in the rules currently to prevent me from also making him an excellent warrior with weapon skills (even very militant weapons) and armor and shields.

Overall I do like your approach. It's very simple and easy to manage and tweak - just like Star Frontiers rules in general.
 

1) I prefer you use INT rather than Personality because of the symmetry of it; INT and LOG are paired. I know you already made it this way, but I noticed your "(maybe personality?)" and wanted to chime in my opinion :-P
I felt the same on this. Consider this finalized as INTUITION.
2) Since spell points are universal (that is, points earned for your levels in one spell skill can be used to power spells from another spell skill), I don't think the bonus gained from LOG (or INT) should be added for each skill. It seems like a bit too much of a bonus, in my opinion, unless you're going for a very high-magic setting where wizards of renown build up huge batteries of magic energy - in which case leave it as it :-)
The Punching Score table was the inspiration for bonus points, simply to tie the system back to the basic rules for Alpha Dawn. Only applying the bonus once was the original plan. All the while I was under the impression that the system was developing too low-magic. Don't get me wrong, I prefer somewhat low magic, but it seemed like too few points... hence the application for every spell skill. I don't mind dropping this, as I think that actual play-testing will uncover whether there is a lack of.. or excess of Spell Points.
3) The spell point bonus by ability score table gives positive boosts even for an ability score of 1%... shouldn't there be a minimum prerequisite for gaining a magical skill? If so, start your bonus spell points there. For example: if you make it require a minimum of 60% in LOG or INT:
See above comment, it all depends how play-testing will pan out. I am of the opinion that points equal to how Punching Score is calculated is fine, even for low score folks. Again, I thought I was making this all too threadbare, but I am flexible to suggestions and how play-testing demonstrates.
4) are ya sure a spell point should cost experience points on a 1:1 basis? Seems to me if you allow these spell points to get too large in number it will make the game VERY high-magic. If that's what you're looking for, then that's super. If you're looking for more of a tolkein-esque level of magic, it might be a bit too disbalancing to allow people to buy up huge batteries of spell points.
I hear ya here. Then again, if a character wants to dedicate themselves to spell casting (instead of armor/weapons/other skills/etc) then why not, as he won't be swinging a sword or increasing STR/STA with those points either. Maybe the cost of increases can be negotiated to 1:2xp or 1:3xp or scaling somehow like first 10 'bought' spell points costs 1:1xp, next 10 costs 1:2xp, next 10 costs 1:3xp... etc.

Thanks for the input. Like I said in an earlier post, trying to think out all the ramifications of a magical system is daunting, but it seems to be coming together. I did not get much chance to work on it last night, but I will try again this evening.

As always, anyone can feel free to comment or make suggestions. It all helps.
 

I agree with all yer comments to my um.. comments :-)

Playtesting is the only surefire way to figure out a balancing point for spellpoints, and not just a simple playtest. Setting will vary them too... (consider the differences between Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms, for example). Maybe in the end, after much testing and feedback, it'll become necessary to present the spellpoint system on a low-to-high magic scale table, with one method defined as "canon"

I think you're right about tying the magic point bonus back to the PS table... even though I never liked the PS table, it *IS* canon SF rules and that's why I kept it in the original game system when I did the "digital remastering"

Fun stuff! Once you come up with a system for spell generation/balancing, I'll tackle a few spell lists to help out.
 

Vague Jayhawk said:
Only add fantasy races if you really want to. There are already plenty to choose from.

Along with the core races you could include the 4 or 5 new ones in Zebulons Guide and make the handfull of sentient species that are listed throughout the published adventures playable races. (Ul-Mor, Kurabandi, and others). It has been a while since I took a look at my books, but I seem to remember none of them were way overpowered.

One time when I GM'd a Star Frontiers game I only had two players. They took an Ul-Mor cleric with them using converted AD&D spells. Looking back on it, it was SOOO BROKEN. But why not. We were in 7th grade and we had a ton of fun. I even had a player bring a Smurf into my game.

Sidenote: Sather archmages would indeed be scary.

This sounds like it was great! Even if broken.

Hmm ... had not thought about Sathar archmages before. :uhoh:

Otherwise ... smootrk, have you thought of making certain spells available only to people of a certain stat rank? A sort of a way for leveling ... and maybe making sense. The more inner "umph" you have the more you can pull out of yourself. That kinda thing. That may be a way to slow down the problem of "huge batteries of spell points" and such.
 

Mycanid said:
Otherwise ... smootrk, have you thought of making certain spells available only to people of a certain stat rank? A sort of a way for leveling ... and maybe making sense. The more inner "umph" you have the more you can pull out of yourself. That kinda thing. That may be a way to slow down the problem of "huge batteries of spell points" and such.
The basic idea is that each level of the Spell Skill acquired opens up a new associated power, in addition to those powers being more costly to cast... so yes you must gain the levels to increase in effectiveness.

Following is my first example of a Spell Skill - Force Magic Spell Skill. As I just wrote this, it is subject to changes - and playtesting changes everything. I think it gives a good example of the powerscale I have in mind for these powers. Anyhow, it is just an example. Seeing how this is written, I would love for others to contribute in creating similar power-scale Spell Skills. The powers within need not be all the same type of magic in the traditional sense. For instance, a Faerie Spell Skill might have charming, beauty, invisibility, summoning and more associated with the suite of powers.

Force Magic Spell Skill – Force Magic deals with projecting and manipulating the equivalent of solid nothingness, sculpting the area affected to achieve certain results.

Level 1, Levitation Disk – creates a slightly concave disk from 10 centimeters to 2 meters in diameter as determined by the caster. The disk floats approximately 1 meter off the ground and always remains level. It follows the caster, always staying within 3 meters, or it can be directed to move up to 10 meters away from the caster. The disk will disincorporate if it moves beyond 10 meters or is forced to move beyond 1 meter from the ground. If a disk disincorporates, anything held by the disk is immediately dropped to the ground. The disk can support 100 kg per level of Force Magic Skill.
- Casting Time – 1 turn, taking effect immediately at end of the turn.
- Range – up to 10 meters, 1 meter above a solid surface.
- Cost to Cast – 1 Spell Point, plus 1 Spell Point per hour duration after the first hour.

Level 2, Force Missile – creates a magic slug of force that strikes an opponent with a great impact. One missile is formed for each level that the character has in this Spell Skill.
- Casting Time – 1 turn, striking targets immediately at end of the turn.
- Range – 20 meters + 5meters/level.
- Cost to Cast – 2 Spell Points per casting.
- Base Chance to Hit – ½ LOG or ½ DEX (whichever is greater) + 10% per Force Magic Level
- Damage/Effect – each missile causes 1d10 blunt force damage.

Level 3, Shielding – creates a minor wall of force much like an invisible, weightless tower shield. The shielding functions exactly like a tower shield without the typical movement penalties. The shielding also neutralizes rival Force Missiles, but each missile will drain an additional Spell Point beyond the normal casting of this Spell.
- Casting Time – 1 turn, immediately available at the end of the turn.
- Range – Personal. The shield may not be ‘given’ to others.
- Cost to Cast – 3 Spell Points per casting, plus 1 Spell Point every 10 minutes beyond first 10 minutes. Also each Force Missile absorbed will drain an additional 1 Spell Point per missile (if desired).
- Damage/Effect – Tower Shield of Force wielded without typical penalties. Absorbs Force Missiles.

Level 4, True Levitate – upon paying the Cost to Cast, this spell skill allows a previously created Levitation Disk to move up or down as desired for a limited period of time.
- Casting Time – 1 turn, with up or down movement available on the character’s next turn.
- Range – pre-existing Levitation Disk.
- Cost to Cast – 4 Spell Points for 10 minutes, with 4 Spell Points for additional 10 minutes increment.
- Damage/Effect – Pre-existing Levitation Disk can move up or down, or laterally as desired at up to 5 meters per turn. Normal lateral movement rates when following according to standard Levitation Disk spell. The spell ends if no Spell Points are rededicated to the effect, reverting back to a normal Levitation Disk. If the spell ends with the disk above 1 meter from the ground, then that spell effect ends as well, as described above in Levitation Disk.

Level 5, Binding Sphere – This Spell Skill creates a 3 meter diameter sphere of force around an object, creature or creatures, trapping that held within.
- Casting Time – 1 turn, trapping the creatures affected immediately at the end of the turn.
- Range – up to 30 meters away.
- Cost to Cast – 5 Spell Points per 5 minutes of duration; extendable.
- Damage/Effect – A sphere of force surrounds any creatures in its area. The sphere is immune to physical damage and most effects. The sphere is completely immobile both from within the sphere or from without. The sphere binds the creatures harmlessly until the sphere disappears at the end of the spell effect or disincorporated by the caster.

Level 6, Force Armor – This Spell Skill creates a personal suit of invisible (or slightly visible if desired), weightless suite of armor similar to Full Plate. The suit will neutralize Force Missiles, exactly like Shielding (above), draining 1 additional Spell Point per Missile.
- Casting Time – 1 turn, with armor available immediately at the end of the casting turn.
- Range – Personal. The armor may not be transferred or ‘given’ to others.
- Cost to Cast – 6 Spell Points for 10 minutes, plus 2 Spell Points per 10 minutes beyond first 10 minutes. Also each Force Missile absorbed will drain an additional 1 Spell Point per missile (if desired).
- Damage/Effect – As a suit of armor, 75% of damage is absorbed away from the character, but the armor is otherwise immune to physical attacks and cannot be damaged except by certain spells. The armor is weightless and the character incurs no penalties to Dex/RS or movement.
To address the Stat requirement you ask... That will come up more so in Advanced Skills/Spell Skills. As well as minimum Skill Levels in certain Skills, Spell Skills, or other prerequisites that I am sure I will think of over time.
 

I see where you're going now... and now I'm not overly concerned about large batteries of spell points. Even the highest-level spell (level 6) isn't overly powerful. I have a question about True Levitation though... if it needs to be cast upon an existing levitation disk, does that mean you now have to be paying for the spell point cost of both the levitation disk and the true levitation spell too?

It looks like none of these spells are more powerful than a 1-2 level D&D spell, and that makes it pretty easy to make spell lists. I'm gaming with the family in about fifteen minutes (Star Frontiers! woooohooooo!) and afterwards I'll tackle a spell list!!

I assume the "Advanced" spell lists will tackle power levels equivalent to 3-4 level D&D spells or so? or higher? What is the cap you're looking for on normal castable spells?

You could require effects greater than 4th level D&D-like spells to require external support, specialized equipment, bound elementals or spirits, or highly taxing/time-consuming rituals in order to balance them. This would be consistent with how classic SF works: gaining the skills necessary to run around in a starship is considered "Advanced Skills" that have prerequisites. But running around in a battleship (a very high level application of these advanced skills) requires a great deal of money and maintenance and extra crew/effort to accomplish. This keeps the very powerful stuff out of the hands of casual adventurers, yet offers them access to it all when the situation demands it. I'm not sure if I'm articulating my point properly, do you follow it?
 

I was kinda making stuff up as I wrote, so I suspect tweaks will be necessary. Already, in my actual text, I swapped the 5th and 6th level functions. I did intend the True Levitation effect to be an add-on to the other 1st level effect, especially given the low, low cost of that effect (1 point per hour)... so yes, caster would be paying both costs.

The Advanced Spell Lists will assume some mastery over one or more 'minor' spell skills, standard skills, Craft functions, or other requirements, and yes, I expect some 'higher level' functions to be available. I also fully expect to suggest that individual players/referees tailor the options to fit their campaign goals, myself only provide a basic Skeleton of Powers as guidelines... after all magic should be a creative endeavor not constrained by the limits of my own imagination only.

I expect Advanced Spell Caster Skills, Advanced Specialized Characters - Mix Divine Spells + Certain Martial Skills as prerequisites to create the equivalent of Paladin Skill Sets. Nature Skills + Certain Martial Skills to create 'Rangers'. Bards, Druids, etc. I think the mixing of Skills, Spells, Psionics, Aberrations, and more will provide lots of raw material for individual player/referees to build a lot with.

Remember also, that these are all really raw ideas, not necesarily all thought out completely. There are bound to be many holes in my thinking processes... not to mention I do most of this writing in the dead of night, sometimes nodding off, sometimes on coffee buzz (hazards of Graveyard Shift work in a big creepy house).

Thanks for the input.
 

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