D&D 3E/3.5 Converting 3.5 PC to AD&D

[LostSoul]

I suggested this to my DM recently - I find that my 20th level 3.5E PC takes too much to play, and that we should just switch the campaign to AD&D. I still want to play that PC, but 3.5 takes too long in play and in prep at that level. Based on what we want to put into it to get what we want.

There are some problems - my PC is basically an elven Fighter/Magic-User but is well outside the racial level limits. But some high-level spells are an integral part of what's gone on so far. Magic items are another issue; I'm not sure how we'd convert a lot of them.

Anyway. Has anyone ever done this before? Any ideas?

 

[Evenglare]

The ONLY thing I can think of to help you is this ...
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/conversionbook.zip
which is actually converting AD&D to 3rd edition not the other way around. Hope it helps some.

 

[Orius]

Yeah, that would be my first answer, use the 2e to 3e conversion guide to convert the character back to AD&D.

It partially depends on which edition you're using as well, is this 1e or 2e AD&D (M-U would seem to imply 1e) ? Your stats will be affected differently depending on which version you use, if you've got anything above an 18, I think 1e doesn't go over 18, but there are Exceptional Scores in UA. 2e has scores from 1-25 so that won't be as different, but your character won't have the same ability bonuses. And stats don't increase every four levels in AD&D like they do in 3e. It shouldn't matter much for the fighter aspects, but the wizard aspects will be a bit different, and more different if you're using 1e -- 2e and 3e generally use the same schools of magic (though spells are different), while I'm not sure if they exist in 1e, most likely UA if they do. Then there's the difference in 1e with M-Us and illusionists which might affect the character's spells. Being multi-classed will also affect things, because an AD&D and 3e multiclass character don't work the same way. Magic items shouldn't be a big deal because they didn't change a lot in 3e. Biggest difference is that stuff in AD&D that affects stats gives you a certain stat rather than a +x; for example, gauntles of ogre power give you a 18 Str rather than a +2 to Str.

You won't have your skills and feats. If you're going down to 2e, your skills can easily be converted to non-weapon proficiencies. If you're doing 1e, the proficiencies do exist in the later books, OA and one of the Survival guides if I'm not mistaken, but I don't know how similar they are to 2e NWPs.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

For the record, I don't know anyone back in the day who respected level limits and even Gygax greatly weakened them with UA. Just ignore them, is my advice. We always did.

 

[grodog]

I've done forward and backward conversions, and IME going backward is much simpler. Orius covered several important items already, but here are a few additional thoughts:

- you can mitigate level limits with wishes or divine/infernal/etc. intervention, so I wouldn't worry too much about those; another option would be to make the PC into a minor godling---a hero, quasi-deity, or even demigod (and if that sounds attractive, you may want to consider buying a copy of _The Primal Order_)
- magic items that are non-standard are very much a part of 1e as well, they're just not as codified as in 3.x; adding various abilities to the weapons/armor/etc. shouldn't be a huge problem
- 1e does use schools of magic, but they're really just descriptors for the spells vs. providing any particular benefit by specializing in one or more; those kinds of rules can easily be imported from 2e or added for flavor via your PC's years of training/specialization/whatever
- stats to 19 are available in PHB (Dex and Con, IIRC), but stats higher than 18 are defined in D&DG or the MM2; it's never been a problem for PCs to have stats higher than 18 IMCs

Good luck

 

[teitan]

Tenth level m-u/fighter or convert xp to the appropriate levels considering the rapid pace of advancement in third he might not be that high a level.

 

[the Jester]

For the record, I don't know anyone back in the day who respected level limits and even Gygax greatly weakened them with UA. Just ignore them, is my advice. We always did.

Yeah, but that totally gimps the ONLY reason to play humans in 1e.

(Other than racial limits to class choice, I guess.)

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Yeah, but that totally gimps the ONLY reason to play humans in 1e.

(Other than racial limits to class choice, I guess.)

I'm pretty sure that, in 2013, min-makers are playing something other than AD&D.

 

[pming]

Hiya.

My suggestion is to just go one by one, down the characters "stuff", and then equate that to what it would be in 1e. Pretty much ignore most of the 1e "rules".

He's 20th level F/MU in 3.5e (I'm going to assume 10/10?). So, one of the key things is that he can cast 5th level spells...that's the same in 1e. Ok, so he's now a 10th level MU in 1e. He's a 10th level Fighter. No worries there...make him 10th level. Now you have his levels. Write down the core stuff he has as a 10/10 F/MU.

He's an elf. So...write down the elf stuff.

Fighters can specialize in 1e (Unearthed Arcana). Assuming you use that...go ahead and specialize in whatever weapon he uses. Write that down.

Look at his skills in 3.5e. Take a look at the NWP's in the Wilderness and Dungeoneers Survival Guides (assuming you're using them). See how many you'd get as a 10/10 F/MU and start there. If some skill that you almost never use doesn't have an equivalent, ignore it. One thing, there is no such thing as "Knowledge" skills, per se, in 1e. There are some NWP's that may cover multiple "Knowledge" skills found in 3.5, and some that just don't exist and are assumed to be "common knowledge someone of your class would know" (e.g., Know:Arcane in 3.5e...but in 1e, it's just kind of assumed that as a MU you'd know this stuff... typically handled in-game by the DM saying "Roll equal or less than your INT score, please"). So, yeah, just pick the NWP's that seem to fit the skill-set you generally used in 3.5e.

Magic items. Find something close to what you have in 3.5e. If it doesn't exist in 1e, ignore it or just make it up. In 1e modules, unique magic-items and spells were often found...no reason your character couldn't have, say an "Amulet of Intelligence" that gives him +1 to Int. The only thing to remember here is that in 1e, a +1 to an ability score was a pretty big thing. A weapon that does "+2d6 Fire burst" is *very* powerful...almost artifact level power...in 1e. In that case, I'd just make the weapon a "Flame Tongue". Same general idea..."sword of fire". In other words, don't try and convert number-to-number.

Spells. Just go through and ignore your 3.5e spells as a whole. Choose your 1e spells as if you would have imagined you would have chosen them. If there is some core-spell your character used "all the time" in 3.5e that doesn't exist in 1e...make it up. My 20th level MU had created 3 spells of his own over his career.

Feats. Yeah, you can pretty much ignore these too, as there really isn't any equivalent in 1e. Don't worry, you won't need them anyway as most "feats" in 3.5e were handled in 1e by "You want to do what? Hmm...ok...do this...roll dice...".

Put your XP at whatever percentage you are to next level in 3.5e, against the 1e level counterpart. So if you were "65% of the way to 21st level in 3.5e", put your XP for F and MU at 65% of the way to level 11 in each. You can do your HP's this way too, if you want (figure out your maximum in 3.5e, figure out how close you actually are to that, use that as a percentage to figure out how many 1e hp's you'd have).

If you really aren't familiar enough with 1e, post up your character in 3.5e and I (or someone else) can do a conversion for you to work with.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Celebrim]

There are some problems - my PC is basically an elven Fighter/Magic-User but is well outside the racial level limits. But some high-level spells are an integral part of what's gone on so far. Magic items are another issue; I'm not sure how we'd convert a lot of them.

Anyway. Has anyone ever done this before? Any ideas?

One of the first things I did with 3e was sit down and try to convert some of my past PC's into the new system.

It didn't really work. I had a high level Elven Thief/M-U roughly equal to 13th level. Core there was just no way. I ended up eventually trying some sort of Ranger1/Rogue4/Wizard5/Arcane Trickster3 or something like that but even then it just doesn't work out. If the character was a wizardly as my 1e PC, then he couldn't be as thiefly. If my character was a thiefly, he couldn't be as wizardly. To actually get the feel required making him about 16th level in 3e.

Your going to have a similar problem going back the other way. Your 20th level character is probably in 1e terms about 28th level. If you try back porting though, the rules are going to say that that's impossible either way. With some generousity from the Unearthed Arcana and some racial subtype min-maxing, your character might be a 10th level Fighter/12th level M-U at the very upper limit of his power and no future advancement possible and roughly the equivalent of a 14th or 15th level 3e character.

Even ignoring racial limitations won't solve your problems. Levels won't work out exactly. What 20th level means in 3rd edition with a PrC probably involved is different than what it means in 1e. Plus you are going to find that 20th level is WAAAAAYYYYYY beyond the range of what 1e by default (especially post UA) expects to be able to need to challenge. Remember that 1e monsters are rated by 'challenge' according to the expected depth you'd find them in a dungeon 1-10, where 1 is the first level of the dungeon and 10 is the tenth level. Recall also that each level of the dungeon corresponds roughly to player level, in that the second level of a dungeon is basically a good challenge for 2nd level characters. Well, much past 10th level, and nothing in 1e is a real challenge without significant DM metagaming, invention, or extrapolation. There are only a handful of official 1e monsters that can challenge characters much above name level - classed NPCs, greater Slaad, 16 headed X-Hydras, Arcanadaemons, Lich, Shambling Mounds boosted by lighting, Jann lords if you ignore the typos and treat that HD as real, Korreds if you abuse the mechanic of the laughter power, classed Vampires, Thessalhydras, near top age category dragons, etc. At one point I could give you a full list, but purusing the 2e adventure 'Axe of the Dwarven Lords' is more or less a greatest hits in that regards. By and large, if you're 12th or 13th level, nothing stock is a major challenge and DMs are going to have to rely heavily on their ability to smith monsters capable of challenging you. Also note that a significant portion of that list is things with high level spell ability. It's not necessarily easier to run high level 1e play than it is high level 3e play.

Magic items should straight convert by name or spell-like ability. That shouldn't be much of a problem, but you will again end up probably wildly out of expectation on power level.

Figuring out your attributes are going to be a bigger issue. 25 int in 1e doesn't mean what it does in 3e and vica versa.