Converting Epic Level Creatures

[freyar]

Oof, before we were comparing to the solar. Let's wait till Shade gets back to settle this.

 

[Cleon]

Oof, before we were comparing to the solar. Let's wait till Shade gets back to settle this.

Sorry, I can see I might have confused the issue a bit. Should have mentioned the other Epic critters I was basing the comparison on.

 

[Shade]

For AC, I've found it best to compare epic-CR monsters to the most similar creatures (even those not of the Epic Level Handbook).

In this case, I think the solar is an apt comparison, as are the lower-CR celestial paragons:

Solar: 35 (-1 size, +5 Dex, +21 natural)
Manath: 42 (+9 Dex, +6 natural, +9 deflection, +9 insight)
Barachiel: 42 (-1 size, +12 Dex, +7 natural, +9 deflection, +5 insight)
Kharash: 41 (-1 size, +11 Dex, +5 natural, +7 deflection, +9 insight)

Note that the paragons have deflection equal to Cha and insight equal to Wis. We've already got a Wis bonus here, but I could see adding the Cha-based deflection too.

 

[Cleon]

For AC, I've found it best to compare epic-CR monsters to the most similar creatures (even those not of the Epic Level Handbook).

In this case, I think the solar is an apt comparison, as are the lower-CR celestial paragons:

Solar: 35 (-1 size, +5 Dex, +21 natural)
Manath: 42 (+9 Dex, +6 natural, +9 deflection, +9 insight)
Barachiel: 42 (-1 size, +12 Dex, +7 natural, +9 deflection, +5 insight)
Kharash: 41 (-1 size, +11 Dex, +5 natural, +7 deflection, +9 insight)

Note that the paragons have deflection equal to Cha and insight equal to Wis. We've already got a Wis bonus here, but I could see adding the Cha-based deflection too.

So what natural armour would you like?

If we give it the Wis and Cha-based AC bonuses as well as Dex it'll get AC37 from those alone [-1 size, +11 Dex, +8 deflection, +9 insight].

If we give it a +10-12 NA like Freyar proposed earlier we'd end out with an AC of 47-49, which is basically the same as the AC48 I proposed earlier except derived by a different means (deflection instead of higher NA).

We could give it the same natural armour as a half-Celestial Dire Ape (NA +5) to give it AC42.

I'd be OK with that.

 

[Shade]

That works for me!

 

[freyar]

Sounds good!

I guess he could use an update. On the issue of sneak attacks, I'm leaning toward the value +10d6 like the 20th level rogue, since we have him gaining 20th level ninja abilities in the oriental adventures underbar.

 

[Shade]

That's fine, or we could simply change the underbar to state "24th-level ninja".

 

[Cleon]

That's fine, or we could simply change the underbar to state "24th-level ninja".

I'm content with 20th level roguery. Wouldn't want to overdo it.

 

[Shade]

Updated.

 

[freyar]

Since he knows all sorc/wiz spells (plus some domains!), he doesn't need the spells known table.

Balance, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Spot, Tumble, Use Rope? That could probably use a little tweaking.