Converting First Edition Monsters

[Cleon]

I'll stick with 3HD for the minions, and I think I'd also keep the minions to AC 16. Maybe don't give the minions the deflection bonus. I'd just like to keep the separated in power level. It seems they should also get DR X/bludgeoning, like skeletons. Maybe DR 5 for the minions and 10 for the masters?

So you're going for:

Bone Master
11 HD Large Undead (extraplanar)
AC 22 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural, +5 deflection)
Str 19, Dex 15, Con —, Int 13, Wis 16, Cha 20
DR 10/bludgeoning

Bone Minion
3 HD Medium Undead (extraplanar)
AC 16 (+2 Dex, +4 natural)
Str 13, Dex 15, Con —, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 16
DR 5/bludgeoning

I can go along with that.

 

[freyar]

Yes, that seems about right.

Should we work on the controlling ability now?

 

[Cleon]

Yes, that seems about right.

Updating Bloody Bones Working Draft.

How about we call it a "Bone Tyrant", then divide it into "Bone Tyrant, Master" and "Bone Tyrant, Minion"?

Should we work on the controlling ability now?

Might as well, it is their main power.

Do you think we should give it Unholy Toughness?

 

[freyar]

Bone Tyrant is fine.

I think I want to wait and see on Unholy Toughness.

OK, on the control, is it really rebuke/command or just a turn resistance effect? And does 20 miles really seem sensible for an area of effect?

 

[Cleon]

Bone Tyrant is fine.

Updating Bloody BonesBone Tyrant Working Draft.

I think I want to wait and see on Unholy Toughness.

Fine by me.

OK, on the control, is it really rebuke/command or just a turn resistance effect? And does 20 miles really seem sensible for an area of effect?

The original monster writeup is slightly vague:

The master has the ability to draw all undead within a 20 mile radius to its service. Once installed in an evil area, the bloody bones exert influence on any undead therein, resulting in a negative modifier applied to a cleric's attempt to turn undead. This modifier is additive to any other penalty for the evil shrine or temple.

* * *​

Control of undead can be done by the master itself or any of its minions. Only one need be in the presence of the undead being controlled for the modifier to be applied, but if none are in the same area as the undead, turn attempts may be made normally.
​

Hmm, maybe it's clearer in the body of the adventure...

...Okay, we've got:

The Bloody Bones
The scenario features a new monster: the bloody bones. This evil team consists of a "master" that cannot leave its lair and telepathically linked "minions" that are highly mobile. For the most part, the minions stay in the secondary mausoleums and only marshal their forces against those who directly disturb them.

* * *​

The Mausoleums
Each is occupied by a large group of mixed undead, as well as minions of the master bloody bones. The undead are milling randomly about the area, but the minions are placed specifically on indicated platforms in each area. Certain platforms contain treasure and magical items, but one of the bloody bones in two of the mausoleums is standing atop an item that proves very helpful to the party. While the undead move to start melee, the minions stay stationary, even if attacked.
​

So, we've got two statements that the Bloody Bones "control" the undead they attract (but no definition as to how much), and one statement that a minion can "marshal" a force of undead to attack intruders - which implies some sort of command power. The minions can lie like lifeless skeletons while influencing undead, so they don't need to speak or gesture to use this ability.

I'll note that each Mausoleum contained 24 skeletons, 24 zombies, 18 ghouls, 3 wights and 3 ghasts. Suggesting the minions can "influence" a lot of undead.

 

[freyar]

Well, it seems to do 3 things: (1) grant turn resistance to "commanded" undead, (2) summon/attract undead, and (3) if not actually command them, at least keep the "commanded" undead from attacking each other. It may be easier to implement (2) as a summoning rather than attraction mechanic. What do you think?

 

[Cleon]

Well, it seems to do 3 things: (1) grant turn resistance to "commanded" undead, (2) summon/attract undead, and (3) if not actually command them, at least keep the "commanded" undead from attacking each other. It may be easier to implement (2) as a summoning rather than attraction mechanic. What do you think?

Hmm, not sure about making it a Conjuration (summoning) effect like a very unnatural inversion of summon nature's ally. The Master "draws" undead towards it, which suggests they travel under their own power. I'd rather make it work something like a Harpy's Song.

I would like to apply a cap to the Bone Tyrant's abilities to Draw and Influence undead. Maybe a max HD equal to half the Master's HD? That'd allow for all the "marshalled" undead in the adventure.

I don't like the idea of it automatically drawing high-level Liches and Death Knights.

 

[Cleon]

Hmm, not sure about making it a Conjuration (summoning) effect like a very unnatural inversion of summon nature's ally. The Master "draws" undead towards it, which suggests they travel under their own power. I'd rather make it work something like a Harpy's Song.

That said, I'm not completely against the summoning idea either. It'd allow the Bone Tyrant to amass an undead army in a sealed tomb without its recruits having to break their way in, for a start.

The Tyrant's minions have at-will dimension door, so it does already have an instant-travel power.

My main problem with using the Summoning Approach is that wouldn't it mean some or all of its Undead Host will be vulnerable to anti-summoning Adjuration spells?

 

[freyar]

I would definitely cap the amount of undead. I like the max HD of half the master's, and I'd probably also cap the total HD at some multiple of the master's (say 3x to 5x).

The reason I mentioned summoning is that the "attraction" mechanic requires the DM to know what all the undead are within the region affected by the attraction SQ. I don't entirely mind treating it as attraction, but I think the ability should specify in some sense what comes, like a summoning effect.

 

[Cleon]

I would definitely cap the amount of undead. I like the max HD of half the master's, and I'd probably also cap the total HD at some multiple of the master's (say 3x to 5x).

The reason I mentioned summoning is that the "attraction" mechanic requires the DM to know what all the undead are within the region affected by the attraction SQ. I don't entirely mind treating it as attraction, but I think the ability should specify in some sense what comes, like a summoning effect.

So some kind of "random undead attraction table"? That could work.

As for a Hit Dice cap, the original writeup suggests that'd be very high.

Let's see.

24 skeletons = 24 HD
24 zombies = 48 HD
18 ghouls = 36 HD
3 wights and 3 ghasts = 24 HD
24+48+36+24

Total = 132 Hit Dice!

And that's for each of the six minions, so the original Bloody Bones has 792 HD in its Undead Horde. No wonder it recommends the DM doesn't simply dogpile the party with the walking dead.

Hmm, maybe we could use something like the Thrallherd and use a Leadership Feat like table instead?

e.g. a basic Bone Tyrant could have up to X undead of CR 1/2 or 1/3, Y undead of CR 1, Z of CR 2 and so on up to CR 3 (the Challenge Rating of a Wight or Ghast).

Also, what happens if there are no other Undead within 20 miles of wherever the Tyrant is posted? Perhaps we should allow it to create undead from unconsecrated corpses as well as attracting them?