Converting First Edition Monsters

Cleon

Adventurer
I switched it to align with yours...so let's stake it through the heart and declare it done :)

You sure?

I just hadn't got around to updating that last red bit of the Working Draft to match the D&D Beyond version!

Comparing the two, I think "The uropygid shoots an irritant acidic liquid from glands near its tail" is better.
 

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Cleon

Adventurer
okay - switched back to that - now here

Argh!

It's lost the "(only loose strata such as earth, sand or leaves)" after its "burrow 20 ft." again.

Apart from that it looks good to go.

What's up with the blinkin' D&DBeyond website. At least when I save changes to an Enworld post it usually doesn't much something else up.

Speaking of which, I've updated the Giant Uropygid Working Draft to what is, hopefully, the final version.
 

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
When I re-edit a monster that has already been submitted - it seems to lose its avatars and the bracketed bits to movement. anyway, I have readded and saved to here - I think I've made it stick this time...
 



Cleon

Adventurer
Amblypygid, Giant
Medium beast, unaligned
Armor Class 14 (natural armor)
Hit Points 16 (3d8 + 3)
Speed 30 ft., climb 30 ft.

STR​
DEX​
CON​
INT​
WIS​
CHA​
13 (+1)​
16 (+3)​
12 (+1)​
1 (−5)​
9 (−1)​
3 (−4)​

Skills Acrobatics +7, Perception +3
Senses blindsight 60 ft., passive Perception 13
Languages
Challenge 1/2 (100 XP) Proficiency Bonus +2

Spider Climb. The giant amblypygid can climb difficult surfaces, including upside down on ceilings, without needing to make an ability check.

Flattened Body. A giant amblypygid can move or squeeze through narrow spaces as if it were a Small creature. It also has Advantage on skill or ability checks to squeeze through tight spots.

Actions

Multiattack. The amblypygid makes two foreleg attacks against the same target. If it hits, it can make a bite attack against the target, with Advantage if it hits with both forelegs, without Advantage if it hits with one foreleg.

Foreleg. Melee Weapon Attack: +3 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 3 (1d4 + 1) piercing damage, and the target is grappled (escape DC 11). The amblypygid can grapple only one target at a time.

Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +3 to hit (with Advantage if target already grappled), reach 5 ft., one target. Hit 6 (1d8 + 6) piercing damage.

Description
Also called whip spiders or tailless whip scorpions, these carnivorous arachnids resemble flattened long-legged spiders. An amblypygid has spiked forelimbs for seizing prey and its first pair of legs are elongated into whip-like feelers. They live in dark and humid environments such as jungles, forests and the underdark. Expert climbers and natural acrobats, an amblypygid can hunt prey in treetops or on walls or ceilings as easily as the ground. Giant amblygids have bodies about 4 feet long, but their lanky limbs make them look bigger.

Giant amblypygids are nocturnal hunters who hide in caves and hollow trees during the day. While they are not pack hunters, groups of them can cluster in lairs with a plentiful supply of prey; the amblypygids tolerate each other's company as long as there's enough food for them all. A female amblypygid will carry her newborn hatchlings upon her back.

(Amblypygids first appeared as Huge Pedipalp (Amblypygi) in Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits (1980) by Gary Gygax and David C. Sutherland III, the original author was Sutherland)
 
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Casimir Liber

Adventurer
I've got nothing to do, so will whip up a rough draft for a Giant Amblypygid…
Heh..beat me to it...I was musing on this meself..

Just reading about them as I was seeing if there was anything else that could give them some colour so to speak. I hadn't realised "pedipalp" was an archaic term for the larger group (hence the large/huge/giant pedipalp), which nullified my annoyance at my thought of them being named after a body part. The wikipedia article mentions that there may be species that are social...so maybe there are rumours of these existing in larger colonies...? One species is blind (looking for sources on that....am intrigued...)

Looks like a good low level critter. Am still not familiar enough to be hugely confident but the stats look sound.
 
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Casimir Liber

Adventurer
Also then for completeness, do we make giant schizomid as well. They are interesting in that they only have vestigial vision, hence could have Resistance or Immunity to illusions I guess....
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Also then for completeness, do we make giant schizomid as well. They are interesting in that they only have vestigial vision, hence could have Resistance or Immunity to illusions I guess....

I was assuming we'd do them too.

Haven't got much on tomorrow so might write up a Giant Schizomid then. Already got a pretty good idea of what the stats will be.

Unless you beat me to it!
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Multiattack. The amblypygid makes two foreleg attacks against the same target. If it hits, it can make a bite attack against the target, with Advantage if it hits with both forelegs, without Advantage if it hits with one foreleg.

Foreleg. Melee Weapon Attack: +3 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 3 (1d4 + 1) piercing damage, and the target is grappled (escape DC 11). The amblypygid can grapple only one target at a time.

I briefly considered changing the grasping appendages of the Giant Ambylypygid from Foreleg to Claw since they're not literally legs, but spiky pedipalps.

In the end I decided to keep them at Foreleg, to honour the AD&D original text (1E and 2E describes Amblypygi's pedipalps as "legs" with "spiny pincers" and the Uropygi's as "forelegs that end in large pincers").

At least, that's my excuse! It also means we won't have to consider changing the appendages' name in the giant arachnid conversions we'd already completed.

That seemed a very sound reason too!

The Schizomid's pedipalps are called "grasping arms" in both 1E and 2E incidentally, which is odd since a Schizomid's pedipalps look the most jawlike of the three Pedipalps:



That brickred section in front of its "face" is its folded-up pedipalps, the actual jaws are hidden between and behind them.

A Schizomid's normal hunting routine is to feel its target with its forelegs* to figure out whether its prey and precisely where it is, then lunge forward while flicking out their pedipalps to seize the meal with the scorpion-style pincers at their end.

*Which by some miracle are actual legs. ;)
 

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
So presumably giant schizomida will be 1d8+1 HD? Did ponder then whether amblypygi should be 3HD instead to space them all out, but alternatively having some more low level critters might be a good thing. I am pretty busy next 24-36 hours so go for thy life :LOL:!
 

Cleon

Adventurer
So presumably giant schizomida will be 1d8+1 HD?

I was thinking 2d6 since they're Small so have six-sided HD.

That'll give them 7 hp to the Ambylpygid's 11 hp.

Did ponder then whether amblypygi should be 3HD instead to space them all out, but alternatively having some more low level critters might be a good thing. I am pretty busy next 24-36 hours so go for thy life :LOL:!

Yes, I am tempted to give the Amblypygid Hit Points 13 (3d8) and CON 11, but the original AD&D monster had identical HD to a Huge Wolf Spider, and they have Hit Points 11 (2d8 + 2) in 5E.

Hmm… using 3d8 for the HD would have the benefit of giving the Ambly close to twice the hp of a 2d6 HD Schizomid (13 vs 7).

Or we could go whole hog and make the Ambly's hp 16 (3d8+3) and tweak the foreleg & bite damage up to be closer to the 1d6/1d6/1d8 of the original, making it Challenge 1/2 instead of 1/4. Possibly with a Speed kick up to 40 ft. like the Wolf Spider.

What do you reckon?

Real-like Amblypygids can be rather big - up to 8 inches or so in legspan - but the body is a small fraction of that, maybe up to 1 to 1¼ inches long?

Uropygi are shorter-legged but stocky. Their legspan may be smaller than the largest Amblys, but the arachnid will often be heavier and, presumably, stronger. The biggest Uropys (like Mastigoproctus) can have bodies 3 inches or so in length.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Oh, and real-life Schizomids have a defensive spray like their Vinegaroon cousins.

As per Science Direct: Schizomida (Chemical Ecology):

4.09.22 Arthropoda: Chelicerata, Pedipalpi
Pedipalpi with more than 470 species worldwide are nonpoisonous. Representatives of Amblypygi are devoid of anal defensive glands, whereas Thelyphonida and Schizomida (both groups formerly called Uropygi) possess a pair of large anal glands in the posterior opisthosoma, which open at the end of a postabdominal knob that usually forms the base of the flagellum. Upon contact stimulation, a defensive spray may be discharged (up to 80 cm) by many subsequent ejections (maximal number of discharges: 19) and exactly aimed toward aggressors.​

SNIP

Obviously, also the small-sized and blind microwhip scorpions (Schizomida) are able to secrete an acidic spray from their abdominal tip.​
 

Cleon

Adventurer
a defensive spray may be discharged (up to 80 cm)

Wow, that's like 10 times its body length or more. For an 8-foot Vinegaroon, that's a lot further than the 15-foot cone of our 5E conversion or the 20-foot radius of the AD&D original.

It's more like 60-feet!

Why did we make the range less than the AD&D original again?

I wonder, does the real-life animal squirts a stream at a target, or just spray an area.

If it squirts a targeted stream, a more accurate interpretation might be "a 60-foot line that is 5 feet wide" rather than a cone.

Or perhaps it can do both, squirt a 60 ft. line or a 20 ft. cone?

I'd rather not fiddle with the Uropygid any further though. If we were to upgrade it with a longer range spray I'd stat it separately as a giant Thelyphonida - that's what these arachnids are called these days, after all.

Maybe I'll do that tomorrow as well as the Schizomid, just to keep me occupied. The AD&D Giant Uropygid went up to 12 feet in length, so the 8-footer we just statted could just be the regular-sized giant version of this arachnid! If I did do a jumbo version I'd boost its numbers to make it Challenge 2.

Hmm, perhaps calling it a Giant Uropygid (Mastigoproctus) would make more sense?

Anyhow, it's way too late over here to start statting up either of these babies.

G'night!
 

Casimir Liber

Adventurer
  • agree with idea of buffing amblypygid a little to plant it more midway between schizomid and uropygid.
  • I modelled the uropygid on its 1e counterpart and am happy to leave as is
  • I like idea of incorporating mastigoproctus into the name of a ginormous one as thelyphonid seems a bit odd given we've subdivided the three others.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
agree with idea of buffing amblypygid a little to plant it more midway between schizomid and uropygid.

Here goes…

I'll quote the Challenge 1/4 version here for posterity.

Amblypygid, Giant
Medium beast, unaligned
Armor Class 14 (natural armor)
Hit Points 11 (2d8 + 2)
Speed 30 ft., climb 30 ft.

STR​
DEX​
CON​
INT​
WIS​
CHA​
13 (+1)​
16 (+3)​
12 (+1)​
1 (−5)​
9 (−1)​
3 (−4)​

Skills Acrobatics +7, Perception +3
Senses blindsight 60 ft., passive Perception 13
Languages
Challenge 1/4 (50 XP) Proficiency Bonus +2

Spider Climb. The giant amblypygid can climb difficult surfaces, including upside down on ceilings, without needing to make an ability check.

Flattened Body. A giant amblypygid can move or squeeze through narrow spaces as if it were a Small creature. It also has Advantage on skill or ability checks to squeeze through tight spots.

Actions

Multiattack. The amblypygid makes two foreleg attacks against the same target. If it hits, it can make a bite attack against the target, with Advantage if it hits with both forelegs, without Advantage if it hits with one foreleg.

Foreleg. Melee Weapon Attack: +3 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 3 (1d4 + 1) piercing damage, and the target is grappled (escape DC 11). The amblypygid can grapple only one target at a time.

Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +3 to hit (with Advantage if target already grappled), reach 5 ft., one target. Hit 4 (1d6 + 1) piercing damage.

finished the Giant Ambylypygid update.

I modelled the uropygid on its 1e counterpart and am happy to leave as is

Yes,, me too. Especially after all the trouble you had updating it on D&D Beyond!

I like idea of incorporating mastigoproctus into the name of a ginormous one as thelyphonid seems a bit odd given we've subdivided the three others.

Works for me. I'll probably mention the Thelyphonida name in its Description, just to be pedantic!
 

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