Converting "generic setting" second edition monsters

[BOZ]

I've been looking at the raggomoffyns and captured one template, and I think it will help us with this one.

some of it, i'm sure... not entirely though, because a raggomoffyn has its own physical body whereas the vagabond does not.

Hit Dice: A vagabond maintains separate hit point totals for each of its two parts. (It looks like we might want to make the vagabond a separate creature, after all).

part of the problem here is that it assumes that attacks that hurt the base creature can actually harm the vagabond in any way...

Armor Class: Same as base creature (plus deflection bonus from vagabond?).

possibly. keep that one in mind.

Special Qualities: Both the vagabond and the base creature retain any special qualities they had previously.

Senses (Ex): The vagabond sees and hears everything that the base creature is able to.

i like that.

Shared Damage (Ex): An attack on the base creature with a ghost touch weapons deals half its damage to the vagabond and half to the base creature.

see the comment on Hit Dice above.

Saves: A vagabond uses the base creature's Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves.

Fort and Ref yes, Will... not sure.

Abilities: A vagabond uses the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the base creature, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of the vagabond.

i think to avoid some confusion, we need to better define what the vagabond can do. there are three methods by which a vagabond can have a body: create it, find it, or borrow it. for the first two, we are assuming the body has no soul in the first place, so the vagabond just takes over lifeless flesh, inserting its mental stats where there were none previously. for the third method, the base creature retains its own intellect while the vagabond is merged with it (i think?), so in effect you have a creature with one set of physical stats and two sets of mental stats!

 

[Shade]

some of it, i'm sure... not entirely though, because a raggomoffyn has its own physical body whereas the vagabond does not.

part of the problem here is that it assumes that attacks that hurt the base creature can actually harm the vagabond in any way...

True, but if the vagabond is sentient, it is a creature (or an intelligent item), and therefore should be able to be harmed (assuming the attack can affect incorporeal creatures).

possibly. keep that one in mind.

OK.

i like that.

see the comment on Hit Dice above.

See my comment above as well.

Fort and Ref yes, Will... not sure.

Yeah, Will is tricky.

i think to avoid some confusion, we need to better define what the vagabond can do. there are three methods by which a vagabond can have a body: create it, find it, or borrow it. for the first two, we are assuming the body has no soul in the first place, so the vagabond just takes over lifeless flesh, inserting its mental stats where there were none previously. for the third method, the base creature retains its own intellect while the vagabond is merged with it (i think?), so in effect you have a creature with one set of physical stats and two sets of mental stats!

The more I look at this, the vagabond must be a separate creature, even if it can do next to nothing without a host. Here's how I currently envision the three scenarios you describe:

Scenario 1: Vagabond creates body - Vagabond has some sort of guidelines on what creature type it can create, vagabonds mental scores and (Su) and (Sp) abilities are used, base creature's physical scores and (Ex) abilities are used.

Scenario 2: Vagabond finds lifeless body - Same rules as creating it, except it doesn't just choose the form at random.

Scenario 3: Vagabond inhabits host - template combines aspects of both creature's mental abilities. All host's abilities (Ex, Su, and Sp) are retained. Vagabond also provides its (Su) and (Sp) abilities. Vagabond and creature maintain separate mental stats. Question: Who is in control? Should we use an Ego check like symbionts, or something like possession?

I could be wrong on all this, but I just can't see how to make the template work without the vagabond being a creature.

 

[BOZ]

The more I look at this, the vagabond must be a separate creature, even if it can do next to nothing without a host. Here's how I currently envision the three scenarios you describe:

Scenario 1: Vagabond creates body - Vagabond has some sort of guidelines on what creature type it can create, vagabonds mental scores and (Su) and (Sp) abilities are used, base creature's physical scores and (Ex) abilities are used.

Scenario 2: Vagabond finds lifeless body - Same rules as creating it, except it doesn't just choose the form at random.

Scenario 3: Vagabond inhabits host - template combines aspects of both creature's mental abilities. All host's abilities (Ex, Su, and Sp) are retained. Vagabond also provides its (Su) and (Sp) abilities. Vagabond and creature maintain separate mental stats. Question: Who is in control? Should we use an Ego check like symbionts, or something like possession?

I could be wrong on all this, but I just can't see how to make the template work without the vagabond being a creature.

I give up; you are right. I just didn?t want to deal with making it into an actual creature. but yes, more than a few questions will be answered if we just buckle down first and make it a creature with proper stats.

In scenario 3, the host creature is in full control and can ignore anything the vagabond wants (unless it uses a psionic power to dominate the host, which we didn't give it)

12-HD sound good? I think you suggested this before, anyway. Let's hammer out the vagabond's personal stats before going back to working on the template.

Vagabond
Medium? Outsider (Incorporeal, Native?)
Hit Dice: Xd8+X (X hp)
Initiative: +X
Speed: X ft (X squares)
Armor Class: X (+X size, +X Dex, +X natural), touch X, flat-footed X
Base Attack/Grapple: +X/+X
Attack: X +X melee (X+X)
Full Attack: X +X melee (X+X)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: psionics
Special Qualities: create host, darkvision 60 ft, detect vagabond, immunity to (non-psionic) mind-affecting effects, incorporeal traits, inhabit host, reanimate corpse
Saves: Fort +X, Ref +X, Will +X
Abilities: Str ---, Dex X, Con X, Int 20, Wis 23, Cha 25
Skills: X
Feats: X

Environment: X
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: X
Treasure: X
Alignment: Often neutral
Advancement: X
Level Adjustment: +X?

 

[Shade]

Let's give 12 HD a try.

Looking at similar incorporeal creatures of the same size...

Deathshrieker: Str -, Dex 25, Con -, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 20
Banshee: Str --, Dex 17, Con --, Int 16, Wis 15, Cha 17
Bhut: Str -, Dex 19, Con -, Int 14, Wis 9, Cha 20
Shadow Demon: Str -, Dex 24, Con 10, Int 17, Wis 17, Cha 20
Spectre: Str —, Dex 16, Con —, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 15
Wraith: Str —, Dex 16, Con —, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 15

Dex falls within the range of 16-25 and Con should probably be 10. I'd go with 19 Dex.

AC would be deflection, not natural armor. Deflection bonus = Cha modifier (+7).

Fly speeds of similar critters:
Deathshrieker: Fly 40 ft. (good)(8 squares)
Banshee: Fly 80 ft. (good)
Bhut: Fly 50 ft. (perfect)(10 squares)
Shadow Demon: Fly 40 ft. (perfect)(8 squares)
Spectre: 40 ft. (8 squares), fly 80 ft. (perfect)
Wraith: Fly 60 ft. (good) (12 squares)

So...I'd go with a fly speed of 40-80 feet, either good or perfect manueverability.

Assuming all that...

Hit Dice: 12d8 (54 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: X ft (X squares)
Armor Class: 21 (+4 Dex, +7 deflection), touch 21, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/-
Attack: X +X melee (X+X)
Full Attack: X +X melee (X+X)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: psionics
Special Qualities: create host, darkvision 60 ft, detect vagabond, immunity to (non-psionic) mind-affecting effects, incorporeal traits, inhabit host, reanimate corpse
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +12, Will +14
Abilities: Str ---, Dex 19, Con 10, Int 20, Wis 23, Cha 25
Skills: X (13 at 15 ranks)
Feats: X (5 total)

 

[BOZ]

OK, that's working so far... they should be naturally invisible for one thing.

speed could be pretty high flight speed.

they *could* have a touch attack to initiate contact, or no attacks at all.

 

[Shade]

Modified from invis stalker:

Natural Invisibility (Su): This ability is constant, allowing a vagabond to remain invisible even when attacking. This ability is inherent and not subject to the invisibility purge spell.

For speed, 80 ft. (perfect) then?

 

[BOZ]

cool, i likes.

 

[Shade]

Breaking down the description to figure out possible skills...

A vagabond is often immediately recognizable if communication is established, as its odd speech and behavior patterns (always atypical of the form assumed) indicate its unfamiliarly with local customs and expectations.

If they are communicated with, it will soon become t that something is amiss, for they have none of their form's knowledge as to speech, behavior, customs, or expectations. However, they are able to use all of its attack and defense forms as well as movement and essential functions. Of course, many of these will be performed in strange unique ways.

I'd say this rules out Disguise.

The vagabond is typically very inquisitive, often about mundane or personal details. If attacked, it will use its form to defend (or retreat) as best possible. If invited to accompany a party for an adventure, however, it will usually agree (90%), offering its form as an asset for use in exploration and (if necessary) combat. If the body is slain, the vagabond life force will depart, never to return. It an entire adventure is completed, the creature will give a special gift to each party member before departing, It can enchant any gem with a variety of word of recall (3 uses per enchantment) and will enchant 1 gem per character accompanying it on the adventure by way of thanks. (Only the possessor will know the 1-segment phrase needed to activate the gem).

Diplomacy, Knowledge (psionics), Psicraft, Sense Motive?

Lastly, they can inhabit a living body. In this last form, they are like back-seat drivers who make strong suggestions: they cannot do anything which the host life force does not want them to do. Thus, a possessed horse wouldn't jump off a cliff unless it felt safe or confident about the jump. As noted above, vagabonds take the form of any creature with at least animal intelligence. They rarely inhabit forms of higher intelligence, however , such as player character races.

Handle Animal?

Ecology: Vagabonds seem to have come to the prime material plane to gain information. They are extremely curious and inquisitive often about mundane or personal details. If given the chance to adventure with the party, they are 90% likely to join. In exchange, they will use their considerable power to the party's benefit.

Gather Information, Search?

For feats, Negotiator and some psi-boosting feats?

 

[BOZ]

Breaking down the description to figure out possible skills...

I'd say this rules out Disguise.

i'd say so. but i wouldn't give them a penalty, necessarily, and they do have the capacity to learn.

Diplomacy, Knowledge (psionics), Psicraft, Sense Motive?

Handle Animal?

Gather Information, Search?

For feats, Negotiator and some psi-boosting feats?

sure to all of that. did we decide to do a non-psionic version (man, i hope not)? if so, some of those would have to be replaced for that version.

 

[Shade]

i'd say so. but i wouldn't give them a penalty, necessarily, and they do have the capacity to learn.

Agreed.

sure to all of that. did we decide to do a non-psionic version (man, i hope not)? if so, some of those would have to be replaced for that version.

Since these guys are completely based on psionics, I see no need for a non-psionic version.