Converting "generic setting" Second Edition monsters

[freyar]

Medium makes sense, and so do your spell vulnerabilities. We also need to decide on HD, which isn't clearly specified in the original text. If we assume 4 wardens or 100 hp, though, that's about 14HD if the 100 hp includes the construct bonus hp or 18HD if they don't.

 

[Cleon]

Shall we move onto the tombheart?

Some quick thoughts:

Should this be Medium?

The Tombheart doesn't need a separate 5-foot square, which suggests it's either Tiny (so can share a space with a Tomb Warden) or the Tomb Warden can walk through it with the meld into stone function of its Wall Bound power.

The latter is my preferred solution, so make it Medium (and scale bigger with more Wardens).

I'm not sure how close we want to stick to the 25 hp Tombheart per warden protocol. Not only could that quickly pile on the HD (e.g. ten Tomb Wardens would have a 250 hp heart, which could be something a Large 40HD Construct). Also, the Tomb Wardens now vary in size and HD.

Maybe make it a function of the total Hit Dice of the Wardens it is linked to?

Base HD X plus 1 hit dice per X HD of Tomb Wardens it is animating?

Since it's crystalline, rather than stone, I'd recommend different vulnerabilities. Sonic and shatter seem no-brainers. A few others are spelled out:

Makes sense.

 

[Cleon]

Updated.

Should we add "creator must be a dwarf" to the prereqs?

I've checked the Tomb Warden write up and it's fine apart from a couple of minor niggles.

Firstly, the rejuvenation description has "fullly" with three Ls.

Secondly, the Surprise description "A tomb warden melded with the wall receives a +20 circumstance bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks the round after exiting, often allowing them to surprise intruders." doesn't make a great deal of sense since (a) we've reworked its meld with wall power into wall bound and (b) it ca never "exit" from the wall.

I suggest a replacement with the following:

Surprise (Ex): A tomb warden in relief form (see Wall Bound, below) receives a +20 circumstance bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks, often allowing them to surprise intruders.

 

[Cleon]

Okay, so getting back to the Tombheart shall we start arguing about Hit Dice?

I was wondering about giving them half the Hit Dice of the largest Warden plus 1 additional Hit Dice for every 5 Hit Dice of Tomb Wardens that it is linked to, then have the size go something like:

5-9 HD: Small
10-19 HD: Medium
20-39 HD: Large
et cetera.

That would mean a Tombheart linked to standard-issue 11HD Tomb Wardens would have a base of 5HD plus about 2 HD per Warden, and its size, HD and hp progression would go like this.

One Warden (11HD total) = Small Tombheart with HD 7d10+10 (48 hp)
Two Wardens (22HD total) = Small Tombheart with HD 9d10+10 (59 hp)
Three Wardens (33HD) = Medium Tombheart with HD 11d10+20 (70 hp)
Four Wardens (44HD) = Medium Tombheart with HD 13d10+20 (91 hp)
Five Wardens (55HD) = Medium Tombheart with HD 16d10+20 (108 hp)
Six Wardens (66HD) = Medium Tombheart with HD 18d10+20 (119 hp)
Seven Wardens (77HD) = Large Tombheart with HD 20d10+30 (140 hp)
Eight Wardens (88HD) = Large Tombheart with HD 22d10+30 (151 hp)
...
Ten Wardens (110HD) = Large Tombheart with HD 27d10+30 (178 hp)
...
Thirteen Wardens (143HD) = Large Tombheart with HD 33d10+30 (211 hp)
...
Sixteen Wardens (176HD) = Huge Tombheart with HD 40d10+40 (260 hp)

It's not an exact match to the original 25hp/warden but it feels about right.

Contrariwise, a Tombheart with four Large 16-HD Tomb Wardens in its wall would work out.

Base HD = Half Warden's HD = 8 HD
Additional HD = Total Wardens HD (16*4 = 64HD) divided by 5 = 12 HD.

=> Large Tombheart with Hit Dice 20d10+30 (140 hp)

Hmm, I think the basic progression is sound.

 

[freyar]

The mathematical progression isn't bad, but I don't like the idea that the tombheart can have fewer HD than a warden. I'm also not sure that we need to go into so much detail, though I'm ok with it. I'd like a basic tombheart to start at about 14HD, in any case. They should be more powerful than the wardens, I think.

 

[Cleon]

The mathematical progression isn't bad, but I don't like the idea that the tombheart can have fewer HD than a warden. I'm also not sure that we need to go into so much detail, though I'm ok with it. I'd like a basic tombheart to start at about 14HD, in any case. They should be more powerful than the wardens, I think.

I would prefer them to start out with the same HD as a Tomb Warden.

How about "A Tombheart has Hit Dice equal to the highest Hit Dice Tomb Warden it is linked to, plus 1 HD for every 5 Hit dice of the Tomb Wardens it is linked to. e.g. the Tombheart of four 11-HD Tomb Wardens has a base of 11 HD, plus 8 HD (44 HD divided by 5), or 19 Hit Dice."

The Tombheart size could go Medium 11-20 HD, Large 21-40 HD, Huge 41-80 HD etc.

That would translate to:

One 11 HD Warden (11HD/5=2HD) -> 13 HD Medium Tombheart
Two 11 HD Wardens (22HD/5=4HD) -> 15 HD Medium Tombheart
Three 11 HD Wardens (33HD/5=6HD) -> 17 HD Medium Tombheart
Four 11 HD Wardens (44HD/5=8HD) -> 19 HD Medium Tombheart
Five 11 HD Wardens (55HD/5=11HD) -> 22 HD Large Tombheart
Six 11 HD Wardens (66HD/5=13HD) -> 24 HD Large Tombheart
Seven 11 HD Wardens (77HD/5=15HD) -> 26 HD Large Tombheart
Eight 11 HD Wardens (88HD/5=17HD) -> 28 HD Large Tombheart
Nine 11 HD Wardens (99HD/5=19HD) -> 30 HD Large Tombheart
Ten 11 HD Wardens (110HD/5=22HD) -> 33 HD Large Tombheart
Eleven 11 HD Wardens (121HD/5=24HD) -> 35 HD Large Tombheart
Twelve 11 HD Wardens (132HD/5=26HD) -> 37 HD Large Tombheart
Thirteen 11 HD Wardens (143/5=28HD) -> 39 HD Large Tombheart
Fourteen 11 HD Wardens (154HD/5=30HD) -> 41 HD Huge Tombheart
...
Thirty Two 11 HD Wardens (352HD/5=70HD) -> 81 HD Gargantuan Tombheart

While for Large Tomb Wardens...

One 16 HD Warden (16HD/5=3HD) -> 19 HD Medium Tombheart
Two 16 HD Wardens (32HD/5=6HD) -> 22 HD Large Tombheart
Three 16 HD Wardens (48HD/5=9HD) -> 25 HD Large Tombheart
Four 16 HD Wardens (64HD/5=12HD) -> 28 HD Large Tombheart
Five 16 HD Wardens (80HD/5=16HD) -> 32 HD Large Tombheart
Six 16 HD Wardens (96HD/5=19HD) -> 35 HD Large Tombheart
Seven 16 HD Wardens (112HD/5=22HD) -> 38 HD Large Tombheart
Eight 16 HD Wardens (128HD/5=25HD) -> 41 HD Huge Tombheart
Nine 16 HD Wardens (144HD/5=28HD) -> 44 HD Huge Tombheart
Ten 16 HD Wardens (160HD/5=32HD) -> 48 HD Huge Tombheart
...
Twenty One 16 HD Wardens (336HD/5=67HD) -> 83 HD Gargantuan Gargantuan Tombheart

Hmm...

No, I think we should drop this approach and simplify the whole thing.

How about the following.

A Tombheart must be linked to at least two Tomb Wardens, which must all have the same Hit Dice. The Tombheart has a size and Hit Dice according to the following table:

'No. of Tomb'''''Tombheart
''Wardens'''''Size''''''Hit Dice
'''''2'''''Warden -1''As Warden * 1
''''3-4''''As Warden''As Warden * 1.5
''''5-6''''As Warden''As Warden * 2
''''7-8''''Warden +1''As Warden * 2.5
''''9-12'''Warden +1''As Warden * 3
'''13-16'''Warden +2''As Warden * 3.5
'''17-24'''Warden +2''As Warden * 4
'''25-32'''Warden +3''As Warden * 4.5
'''33-40'''Warden +3''As Warden * 5

Example: A wall containing Seven Large 16 HD Tomb Wardens will have a Tombheart one size larger with 2.5 times as many Hit Dice, for a Huge 40 HD Tombheart.

That way we don't need to worry about calculations, just present a table that gives reasonable Hit Dice values.

 

[freyar]

That last approach could work, though it still seems like a bit of trouble just for advancement. Let's see what Shade thinks.

 

[Cleon]

That last approach could work, though it still seems like a bit of trouble just for advancement. Let's see what Shade thinks.

Might as well. I could do with a break from fussing over it.

 

[Shade]

The last approach should suffice, although even that approach is a bit more work for the DM than I think necessary.

 

[Cleon]

The last approach should suffice, although even that approach is a bit more work for the DM than I think necessary.

Well we need something about how to work out the heart's HD, and if you can come up with something simpler than a table that give reasonable figures for the 'heart's size and HD I'd be glad to hear it.

Revising to tidy up the example...

A Tombheart must be linked to at least two Tomb Wardens, which must all have the same Hit Dice. The Tombheart has a size and Hit Dice according to the following table:

'No. of Tomb'''''Tombheart
''Wardens'''''Size''''''Hit Dice
'''''2'''''Warden -1''As Warden * 1
''''3-4''''As Warden''As Warden * 1.5
''''5-6''''As Warden''As Warden * 2
''''7-8''''Warden +1''As Warden * 2.5
''''9-12'''Warden +1''As Warden * 3
'''13-16'''Warden +2''As Warden * 3.5
'''17-24'''Warden +2''As Warden * 4
'''25-32'''Warden +3''As Warden * 4.5
'''33-40'''Warden +3''As Warden * 5

Example: A wall containing seven Tomb Wardens will have a Tombheart one size larger than the Wardens with 2.5 times as many Hit Dice, so for seven Large 16 HD Tomb Wardens have a Huge Tombheart with 40 Hit Dice.

EDIT: Upon reflection, standard sized Tomb Wardens would probably be better for the example. Here's another take, with an alternative wording:

Example: A wall of seven Tomb Wardens will have a Tombheart one size larger than the Wardens with 2.5 times the Hit Dice of each Warden, thus the Tombheart of seven standard Tomb Wardens (Medium-sized 11 HD) is Large-sized and has 27 Hit Dice.

Example #2 works better for me.