Converting Greyhawk monsters

[Cleon]

It appears you are outnumbered on the matter of reducing enhancement bonuses, Cleon.

I have a feeling that's how it's going to end out.

Time to roll out the Cleon Special (TM).

The Cleon Special™ Armoured Divisions are already revving up their engines...

 

[freyar]

But AD&D didn't use DR, so that argument seems void. It does explicitly say the soften can effective reduce the magical plus of armour, which means it works against enhancement bonuses in 3E terms.

On the DR, lycanthropes did have a special defense against weapons, which is the pre-3e version of DR. And it doesn't explicitly say it can reduce that.

I have a feeling that's how it's going to end out.

If you want to get rid of the softening of DR, I could be persuaded to give you softening of magical enhancements. Maybe.

 

[Cleon]

On the DR, lycanthropes did have a special defense against weapons, which is the pre-3e version of DR. And it doesn't explicitly say it can reduce that.

But it didn't need to say it can reduce that, since the Aurotyugh ignores it anyway.

If you want to get rid of the softening of DR, I could be persuaded to give you softening of magical enhancements. Maybe.

Where did you get the idea I wanted to get rid of DR softening? I'm thinking the original text suggests we should have the softening apply to enhancement bonuses to armour and natural armour, that's all.

 

[freyar]

My point is that the softening makes it easier for _all_ enemies to hit the victim, not just the aurotyugh. Therefore, if softening were to reduce the equivalent of DR, it should have made lycanthropes more vulnerable to normal weapons even for a 1st level weakling with a quarterstaff or whatever.

I don't think you want to get rid of DR softening. My point is that we already gave the softening a boost by having it affect DR. So if you want to have it affect enhancement bonuses, as in the original monster, we need to strip out the extra stuff, like softening of DR. Kapische?

 

[Cleon]

My point is that the softening makes it easier for _all_ enemies to hit the victim, not just the aurotyugh. Therefore, if softening were to reduce the equivalent of DR, it should have made lycanthropes more vulnerable to normal weapons even for a 1st level weakling with a quarterstaff or whatever.

I don't think you want to get rid of DR softening. My point is that we already gave the softening a boost by having it affect DR. So if you want to have it affect enhancement bonuses, as in the original monster, we need to strip out the extra stuff, like softening of DR. Kapische?

Oh right. I'm not convinced we need to strip out "the extra stuff", since it's an 18 HD monster with a special ability to make its opponents more vulnerable to attack

I suppose we could strip out the DR softening and give the aurotyugh the ability to simply ignore material-based DRs and DR/magic.

 

[freyar]

Ughh, that's extra stuff, as it's not something that every high-HD monster converted from 1e gets in 3e. I really don't like that idea either.

 

[Cleon]

Ughh, that's extra stuff, as it's not something that every high-HD monster converted from 1e gets in 3e. I really don't like that idea either.

We don't seem to be getting anywhere on this issue, so shall we "Wait To See What Shade Thinks"?

 

[freyar]

Fair enough. Here are my proposals:

Preferred -- leave softening as it is, without adding the ability to soften enhancement bonuses.

Alternate -- add softening of enhancement bonuses to AC (I guess before any normal armor bonus) but remove ability to soften DR. Do not add the ability to ignore DR since that's not 3.X standard and is not called out as a special ability for aurotyughs as compared to other monsters.

 

[Cleon]

Fair enough. Here are my proposals:

Preferred -- leave softening as it is, without adding the ability to soften enhancement bonuses.

Alternate -- add softening of enhancement bonuses to AC (I guess before any normal armor bonus) but remove ability to soften DR. Do not add the ability to ignore DR since that's not 3.X standard and is not called out as a special ability for aurotyughs as compared to other monsters.

Contrarywise - add softening of enhancement bonuses to AC, leave the rest as is.

 

[freyar]

Nah, I wouldn't go for that unless you both really want it.