Converting Greyhawk monsters

[Cleon]

Back to the greater mouther?

Don't have time to get deeply into skills and feats right this minute, but I'd like to spare something for diplomatic/social stuff, as they are "god-kings" of a sort.

Regular mouthers have 4 ranks Spot and 3 ranks Listen.

I'm thinking Listen 4 and Spot 5 for the Greater and use the remaining 10 in social skills - maybe Intimidate 5, Sense Motive 5?

 

[freyar]

That would work for me.

Needs 5 more feats. Maybe Skill Focus (Intimidate), Power Attack, Stand Still, Imp Overrun, ??

 

[Cleon]

That would work for me.

I'll Update it.

Needs 5 more feats. Maybe Skill Focus (Intimidate), Power Attack, Stand Still, Imp Overrun, ??

I'd prefer Negotiator (Diplomacy/Sense Motive) or Persuasive (Bluff/Intimidate) to Skill Focus (Intimidate), of which I prefer Persuasive. Alternative we could give it Skill Focus and Persuasive.

Not sure about Power Attack, it doesn't have a very good attack modifier for its Hit Dice, so I don't know how useful it would be.

Stand Still seem superfluous for something with Improved Grab.

Similarly, doesn't Improved Overrun overlap with its Engulf special attack? Hold on, it doesn't have Engulf so forget about that... unless you fancy adding that special attack like the 3.0 edition Mouther?

The Gibbering Orb ought to offer some inspiration - it has Feats: Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Improved Critical (bite), Iron Will, Multiattack, Weapon Focus (eye ray), Weapon Focus (bite).

Hmm, the Weapon Focus (bite), Improved Critical (bite) and Iron Will are all tempting.

So how about Improved Critical (bite), Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Persuasive, Skill Focus (Intimidate), Weapon Focus (bite)?

 

[freyar]

Since they don't have ranks in both Dip/SM or Bluff/Intimidate, I'd prefer Skill Focus to one of the dual-skill feats. But I think two feats may be a bit of overkill also.

Drop Persuasive and I can get on board with that feat list. (Or, alternately go with Persuasive and pilfer a few ranks for Bluff.) For the last feat, maybe Alertness or Blind-Fight?

Found the "revised/official" mouther, BTW. It's in Lords of Madness and supposedly includes errata from the MM.

 

[Cleon]

Since they don't have ranks in both Dip/SM or Bluff/Intimidate, I'd prefer Skill Focus to one of the dual-skill feats. But I think two feats may be a bit of overkill also.

Drop Persuasive and I can get on board with that feat list. (Or, alternately go with Persuasive and pilfer a few ranks for Bluff.) For the last feat, maybe Alertness or Blind-Fight?

Found the "revised/official" mouther, BTW. It's in Lords of Madness and supposedly includes errata from the MM.

So, which one should we be using - the Swallow Whole Mouther or the Engulf Mouther from the 3.5 SRD? If I remember correctly, the Engulf version is the Monster Manual one, and the Swallow Whole is the Lords of Madness one.

Given the choice, I prefer the Engulf one, since it's a lot closer to the AD&D version of the Mouther. Oh, and it also has Blood Drain per attached mouth, which is nasty.

Blood Drain (Ex): On a successful grapple check after grabbing, that mouth attaches to the opponent. It automatically deals bite damage and drains blood, dealing 1 point of Constitution damage each round. A mouth can be ripped off (dealing 1 point of damage) with a DC 12 Strength check or severed by a successful sunder attempt (the mouth has 2 hit points). A severed mouth continues to bite and drain blood for 1d4 rounds after such an attack. A creature whose Constitution is reduced to 0 is killed.

Engulf (Ex): A gibbering mouther can try to engulf a Medium or smaller opponent grabbed by three or more mouths. The opponent must succeed on a DC 14 Reflex save of fall and be engulfed. In the next round, the mouther makes twelve bite attacks instead of six (each with a +4 attack bonus). An engulfed creature cannot attack the mouther from within. The previously attached mouths are now free to attack others. The save DC is Strength-based and includes a +2 racial bonus.

 

[Shade]

Since they don't have ranks in both Dip/SM or Bluff/Intimidate, I'd prefer Skill Focus to one of the dual-skill feats. But I think two feats may be a bit of overkill also.

Drop Persuasive and I can get on board with that feat list. (Or, alternately go with Persuasive and pilfer a few ranks for Bluff.) For the last feat, maybe Alertness or Blind-Fight?

I prefer Blind-Fight to another skill-enhancer.

Found the "revised/official" mouther, BTW. It's in Lords of Madness and supposedly includes errata from the MM.

That's the version I based the Homebrews entry upon.

 

[freyar]

The gibbering mouther in the SRD (both HypertextSRD and Sovelior & Sage) uses Swallow Whole, too. I don't actually remember what the errata did to the critter. Where'd you get that one, Cleon? WotC's word doc version?

So: SF (Intimidate) and Blind-Fight for those last two feats?

 

[Cleon]

The gibbering mouther in the SRD (both HypertextSRD and Sovelior & Sage) uses Swallow Whole, too. I don't actually remember what the errata did to the critter. Where'd you get that one, Cleon? WotC's word doc version?

Hmm, just realized the Sovereign & Sage version has Engulf in the Special Attacks line, but Swallow Whole in the Combat descriptions.

That just makes things more confusing!

Where'd you get that one, Cleon? WotC's word doc version?

If you meant the WotC Rich Text Format version, you'd be correct.

So: SF (Intimidate) and Blind-Fight for those last two feats?

I still prefer Persuasive over Skill Focus, but like Blind-Fight.

 

[freyar]

Persuasive is ok by me if you put some ranks in Bluff. If Bluff isn't important enough for ranks, I don't see why we'd steal a bonus point to Intimidate.

 

[Shade]

Persuasive is ok by me if you put some ranks in Bluff. If Bluff isn't important enough for ranks, I don't see why we'd steal a bonus point to Intimidate.

I'm with you.