Converting monsters from Second Edition Monstrous Compendiums

freyar · Mar 12, 2013

I'd be happy dropping the skill check to neutralize it. To be honest, I'd allow something more broad than magic that removes stun. What about anything that eliminates exhaustion? That gets restoration, greater restoration, and heal (etc).

Cleon · Mar 14, 2013

freyar said:
I'd be happy dropping the skill check to neutralize it. To be honest, I'd allow something more broad than magic that removes stun. What about anything that eliminates exhaustion? That gets restoration, greater restoration, and heal (etc).

Exhaustion is a good idea. That literally means being out of breath, after all.

Stifle Breath (Su): Once per day, an undead dragon slayer may spend a full attack action to make a single attack with the ability to disable a dragon's breath weapon. If this attack hits a creature with the dragon subtype, it prevents the dragon using any breath weapon it has for 1d6 rounds. The effects of stifle breath can be cancelled by any power that removes exhaustion.

If we want a skill-removal mechanism we could change the last sentence to "The effects of stifle breath can be cancelled by any power that removes exhaustion or by a successful Heal check (DC equals 10 + undead dragon slayer's HD + undead dragon slayer's Cha modifier)."

freyar · Mar 15, 2013

I don't think it needs a Heal check.

Updated.

Want to do the sample or background first?

Cleon · Mar 15, 2013

freyar said:
I don't think it needs a Heal check.

Updated.

Want to do the sample or background first?

Don't mind either way.

freyar · Mar 23, 2013

Let's sort out the background while we decide what sort of sample to do.

Anyway, I have to run, so I'll post some suggestions later. Or you can!

freyar · Mar 24, 2013

OK, a few notes from the original text:

1) Usually created and under command of creator.
2) Sometimes formed spontaneously. Hmmm, sounds like any undead. Maybe we need to pick something more interesting. I do like the "will themselves back" angle.
3) Completely focused on killing dragons, but sometimes keeps company of undead dragons.

Hmmm. Seems like we might need an SQ to explain it losing power if it doesn't kill a dragon often enough. What do you think?

Cleon · Mar 24, 2013

freyar said:
OK, a few notes from the original text:

1) Usually created and under command of creator.
2) Sometimes formed spontaneously. Hmmm, sounds like any undead. Maybe we need to pick something more interesting. I do like the "will themselves back" angle.
3) Completely focused on killing dragons, but sometimes keeps company of undead dragons.

They're also associated with a cult of dragon killers in the original material, if I remember rightly.

freyar said:
Hmmm. Seems like we might need an SQ to explain it losing power if it doesn't kill a dragon often enough. What do you think?

Sure. Maybe they start accruing positive levels if they don't slay a dragon every X weeks?

freyar · Mar 25, 2013

We have something similar for blood warriors in the CC:

Necessary Slaughter (Su): Blood warriors must kill to maintain their strength. If a troop of blood warriors fails to kill sentient creatures with Hit Dice totaling at least that of the troop\'s Hit Dice each week, each member of the troop gains one positive level.

Additionally, should a blood warrior be destroyed, each remaining member of the troop gains one positive level.

When the troop slays a number of Hit Dice of sentient creatures equal to its own total Hit Dice, each member of the troop removes one positive level. If a blood warrior currently has no positive levels, it gains one negative level.

Undead react to positive levels the way nonundead react to negative levels. An undead character with positive levels at least equal to its current level is instantly destroyed. After 24 hours, an undead must make a DC 18 Will save. If the saving throw succeeds, the positive level goes away with no harm to the creature. The afflicted creature makes a separate saving throw for each positive level it has gained. If the save fails, the positive level goes away, but the creature\'s level (or HD) is also reduced by one.

A blood warrior with a negative level gains a +1 competence bonus on all skill checks and ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws, and gains one effective level or Hit Die (whenever level is used in a die roll or calculation) for each negative level. A spellcaster gains one spell slot of the highest level of spells she can cast and (if applicable) one prepared spell of that level. These gains persist until the negative level goes away (is removed by the gain of a positive level). A negative level that is not removed by a positive level for 3 weeks becomes permanent, resulting in advancement by 1 HD.

Want to shorten this?

Cleon · Mar 27, 2013

freyar said:
We have something similar for blood warriors in the CC:

Want to shorten this?

I don't remember these critters at all.

I'll give it a go...

Necessary Slaughter #1 (Su): Undead dragon slayers must kill dragons to maintain their existence. If a slayer fails to kill dragons with Hit Dice totaling at least their own Hit Dice each week, the undead dragon slayer gains one positive level.

If a slayer kills a number of Hit Dice of dragons equal to its own total Hit Dice, it removes one positive level. If an undead dragon slayer currently has no positive levels, it gains 5 temporary hit points. These temporary hit points cannot exceed the slayer's full normal hit point total, and it gradually loses them at the rate of 1 hit point per day.

An undead dragon slayer with positive levels at least equal to its current level is instantly destroyed. After 24 hours, an undead dragon slayer must make a DC 18 Will save. If the saving throw succeeds, the positive level goes away with no harm to the creature. The afflicted creature makes a separate saving throw for each positive level it has gained. If the save fails, the positive level goes away, but the creature's level (or HD) is also reduced by one.

I don't like the permanent HD loss of the original and I think the "basic survival" nourishment level ought to be lower than the "gaining strength" nourishment level, so I'd change it to:

Necessary Slaughter #2 (Su): Undead dragon slayers must kill dragons to maintain their existence. If an undead dragon slayer fails to kill dragons with Hit Dice totaling at least half its own Hit Dice each week, the slayer gains one positive level.

If an undead dragon slayer kills a number of Hit Dice of dragons equal to its own total Hit Dice in a week, it removes one positive level. If a slayer currently has no positive levels, it gains 5 temporary hit points. These temporary hit points cannot exceed the slayer's full normal hit point total, and it gradually loses them at the rate of 1 hit point per day.

A slayer's positive levels from necessary slaughter can only be removed by slaying dragons. They never result in actual level loss, but if an undead dragon slayer ever gains positive levels equal to its current Hit Dice it is instantly destroyed.

I fancy allowing it to use its temp hit points to stave off the positive levels:

Necessary Slaughter #3 (Su): Undead dragon slayers must kill dragons to maintain their existence. If an undead dragon slayer fails to kill dragons with Hit Dice totaling at least half its own Hit Dice each week, the slayer gains one positive level. If the slayer has any temporary hit points from necessary slaughter (see next paragraph), it does not gain the positive level and takes 5 hit points of damage instead.

If an undead dragon slayer kills a number of Hit Dice of dragons equal to its own total Hit Dice in a week, it removes one positive level. If a slayer currently has no positive levels, it gains 5 temporary hit points. These temporary hit points cannot exceed the slayer's full normal hit point total, and it gradually loses them at the rate of 1 hit point per day.

A slayer's positive levels from necessary slaughter can only be removed by slaying dragons. They never result in actual level loss, but if an undead dragon slayer ever gains positive levels equal to its current Hit Dice it is instantly destroyed.

I like #3 the best.