Converting Oriental Adventures creatures

[Cleon]

Better check, and if it has I'll post a mention of it on troubleshooting. So they can shoot it!

Had a quick glance through past conversions, some of them are fine (like the Veiled Maidens) while others (like the Reaper and Shadow Warrior) have the same asterisks-to-italic error.

I think I'd better change all three of them to use ˟ marks to restore legibility, with ᵑ for the Shadow Warrior's ninja bonus feats!

 

[Cleon]

Hold on a second, I've just noticed a possible error that somehow slipped through the cracks.

Shouldn't they all have Advancement of "by character class" rather than "—" like the Reaper does?

The Shadow Walker and Paper Warrior even have "It adds its inherent monklike abilities to any monk levels it might acquire" in their Martial Artistry but have no means to obtain said monk levels!

Come to think of it, shouldn't all the other Swords have that crunch? i.e.:

The Reaper: It adds its inherent fighter abilities to any fighter levels it might acquire. Thus, a 3rd-level Reaper fighter possesses the BAB and fighter feats of a 12th-level fighter.

The Veiled Maidens: It adds its inherent monklike abilities to any monk levels it might acquire. Thus, a 5th-level Veiled Maidens monk possesses the bonus feats, evasion, fast movement and unarmed strike abilities of an 8th-level monk of an 8th-level monk and the BAB and base saves of a 13th-level monk.

The General: It adds its inherent fighter abilities to any fighter levels it might acquire. Thus, a 1st-level General fighter possesses the BAB and fighter feats of a 14th-level fighter.

The Screaming Child: It adds its inherent fighter abilities to any fighter levels it might acquire. Thus, a 3rd-level Child fighter possesses the fighter feats of a 12th-level fighter.

Either that or we should remove the "By character class" and references to levels from the other Swords' Martial Artistry/Training abilities.

I also wondered whether we should have "equal to its undead Hit Dice" rather than "equal to its Hit Dice" in the Martial Training/Artistry abilities of the Reaper, Maidens, General and Screaming Child.

Upon reflection, we can just directly quote a class level instead. We already do that for some of the entries, so at least it'll make them all consistent! (i.e. "The Reaper possesses the base attack bonus and qualifies for fighter feats as if it were a 12th level fighter"; "The Veiled Maidens possesses the bonus feats, evasion, fast movement and unarmed strike abilities of a 3rd-level monk and the base attack bonus and base saving throw bonuses of an 8th-level monk"; "The Shadow Walker possesses the base attack bonus of an 11th-level rogue and qualifies for fighter feats as if it were an 8th-level fighter."; "The Child possesses the base attack bonus of an 12th-level rogue and qualifies for fighter feats as if it were a 9th-level fighter.").

 

[freyar]

I feel like these are all supposed to be unique monsters in any given campaign setting, so I'd put advancement for all of them at --- and quote the class level directly for the bonus feats, etc, like you suggest in your last paragraph.

Otherwise, these are looking good! Ready for the next one?

 

[Cleon]

I feel like these are all supposed to be unique monsters in any given campaign setting, so I'd put advancement for all of them at --- and quote the class level directly for the bonus feats, etc, like you suggest in your last paragraph.

Yes, the original creatures were unique monsters, but that doesn't prevent them being unique monsters with a different level/CR of the versions we present here. What if a DM wants to run OA2 for a party a few levels higher than what it was designed for?

If they're all non-advancement what's the point of the "It adds its inherent [monklike/fighter] abilities…" bits in the Shadow Walker or Paper Warrior? We must have assumed there was some way they can gain class levels otherwise why bother including that?

I'd rather add the character class advancement to the Reaper, General, Veiled Maidens, Shadow Walker and Screaming Child as in the post above.

I'm not really bothered either way about quoting the class level or the Hit Dice in the Martial Artistry, since the resulting abilities are the same, but might as well go ahead with that:

Updating The Screaming Child Working Draft.*
Updating The Shadow Walker Working Draft.*
Updating The General Working Draft.*
Updating The Veiled Maiden Working Draft.*
Updating The Reaper Working Draft.

*I cleaned up the wording from "and qualifies for fighter feats as if it were" to "and the [bonus] fighter feats of" since it's a lot less clunky.

Otherwise, these are looking good! Ready for the next one?

We'd better settle the Advancement issue before we proceed to the Final Sword.

Boy, it's been so long since we started these seven guys I'm having trouble believing we're about to reach the last one.

 

[Cleon]

Huh, for some reason the forum hiccuped and double-posted my last post.

Oh well, I'll just edit the duplicate since I've noticed a few slight issues.

Firstly, the Shadow Walker has "ninja bonus feat" entries in its feats, three Exotic Weapons to be precise.

Unfortunately, the Ninja is not an SRD class nor is there any SQ explaining what these are!

I propose adding the following:

Ninjitsu (Ex): The Shadow Walker's extensive training in the ninja arts gives it three exotic weapon proficiencies as bonus feats as well as many of the extraordinary and supernatural abilities it possesses. If the campaign uses the Oriental Adventures sourcebook it has all the special abilities of an 8th level ninja spy (many of which are already included in the Shadow Walker's abilities) except it has the katana and scythe-chain added to its Exotic Weapon class feature's proficiency options.

Secondly, the Oriental Adventures I cribbed the ninja spy from has its Acrobatics ability be (Su) rather than (Ex). Shouldn't we change it to match the original source?

Thirdly, the Ninja Spy had one minor ability that looks like the Shadow Walker should have it:

Leap of the Clouds (Su): A 3rd-level ninja spy’s jumping distance (vertical or horizontal) is not limited according to his height.

Which'd become:

Leap of the Clouds (Su): The Shadow Walker’s jumping distance (vertical or horizontal) is not limited according to its height.

Then I remembered that maximum jump distance was a 3.0 rule that was abolished in 3.5 by someone seeing sense!

Also, can anyone remember why we gave the Ninja Spirit Shadow +5 acrobatics when that class ability starts at +10 for a 3rd-level Ninja Spy? It just seems odd considering we based the monster's abilities on a 3rd level ninja spy/3rd level monk.

Should I amend that entry to give it another 5 points in Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble?

I'm not that fussed about adding the Ninjitsu ability discussed above since it's already got a pile of weapon proficiencies to its name - bastard sword, handaxe, kama, nunchaku, sai, sap, shortbow, shuriken, siangham, and short sword. That's six exotic weapons and four martial weapons! Unfortunately only one of them (the shuriken) is a "ninja weapon" according to the ninja spy's Exotic Weapon class feature, which has few weapons from the SRD (plus one which should be in the SRD - the ninja-to is just a shortsword with fancy scabbard accessories rather than a different weapon).

If we were to bother going the Ninjitsu route, I'd make it something like:

Skills: Balance +17, Bluff +8, Climb +17, Hide +12, Jump +17, Listen +10, Move Silently +12, Search +8, Spot +10, and Tumble +19

Ninja spirit shadows are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the bastard sword, chain, handaxe, kama, nunchaku, sai, sap, shortbow, shuriken, siangham, and short sword. Ninja spirit shadows are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Acrobatics (Su): A ninja spirit shadow has a +10 competence bonus on Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble checks.

Ninjitsu (Ex): Remnants of the ninja spirit shadow's extensive shinobi training accounts for its multiple exotic and martial weapon proficiencies as well as many of the extraordinary and supernatural abilities it possesses. If the campaign uses the Oriental Adventures sourcebook it has all the special abilities of an 3rd level ninja spy.

A 3rd level ninja spy gets two Exotic Ninja Weapons so I added chain to the shuriken it's already proficient in.

Not feeling the need to change the entry though. The Shadow Ninja seems more a, well, shadow of its former self than a full over-speced NPC like the Seven Swords are.

 

[freyar]

Ugh, you'd think a "staycation" would be a time I could catch up on posts, but somehow it never works out that way.

Hmmm. Well, it looks like they have --- advancement, but there are still some references to acquiring character classes in the abilities. Anyway, I can see your point as guidance for the DM that they could advance by character class, but then some of the abilities (for example, the General's Martial Training) should get references to character class advancement. I'll let you choose which work you'd rather do --- removing the few references to advancement, or adding advancement to all of them.

The Ninjitsu ability you proposed for the Shadow Walker is good!

On the last bit, you mean the Ninja Spirit Shadow we did back in 2016 from OA2 as a correction to the CC? I think I'd just correct Acrobatics to a +10 bonus, but there doesn't seem to be a need for the Ninjitsu ability.

 

[Cleon]

Ugh, you'd think a "staycation" would be a time I could catch up on posts, but somehow it never works out that way.

Hmmm. Well, it looks like they have --- advancement, but there are still some references to acquiring character classes in the abilities. Anyway, I can see your point as guidance for the DM that they could advance by character class, but then some of the abilities (for example, the General's Martial Training) should get references to character class advancement. I'll let you choose which work you'd rather do --- removing the few references to advancement, or adding advancement to all of them.

I think I'd rather give them all advancement by character class as I think that was the original intent since that's what the first Seven Swords conversion we did has, namely the Reaper.

The Ninjitsu ability you proposed for the Shadow Walker is good!

Will include it in the Working Draft update.

Updating The Screaming Child Working Draft.
Updating The Paper Warrior.
Updating The Shadow Walker Working Draft.
Updating The General Working Draft.
Updating The Veiled Maiden Working Draft.
Updating The Reaper Working Draft.

On the last bit, you mean the Ninja Spirit Shadow we did back in 2016 from OA2 as a correction to the CC? I think I'd just correct Acrobatics to a +10 bonus, but there doesn't seem to be a need for the Ninjitsu ability.

At the moment it feels easier just leaving the Ninja Spirit Shadow as it is. If we don't give it Ninjitsu there's little point having the Acrobatics bonus increase to match a 3rd level Ninja Spy since we're not referring to that class.

 

[Cleon]

Updating The Veiled Maiden Working Draft.

I made a tweak to the Multiple Bodies SA since as written it'd allow a Veiled Maidens' spellcaster to septuple-cast spells, which seemed a bit excessive.

Multiple Actions (Ex): Whenever the Veiled Maidens performs a physical action, it can perform that action up to seven times - once for each of its bodies. Thus, if it makes a standard attack action it will make up to seven attacks at no penalty, even if it moves or charges during the round. The number of multiple actions it can make is reduced by one whenever one of its bodies is destroyed (see Multiple Bodies). Multiple Actions does not allow a Veiled Maidens to multiply magical actions or gain additional usages of an action - a Veiled Maidens 1st-level wizard cannot cast the same magic missile seven times at once, and one with a 3/day ability is still limited to three usages per day (although if it's a mundane extraordinary power its bodies could perform multiple daily usages simultaneously).

The Veiled Maidens can perform an action fewer times than its Multiple Actions maximum. Non-participating bodies either pose artistically or make dance-like gestures that resemble the motions of the action.

 

[Cleon]

Well that took way longer than I expected!

I might as well update the CC's Ninja Spirit Shadow to a +10 Acrobatics (Su) bonus now I've got this far…

 

[Cleon]

Okay, I think we're clear to start the Final Sword…