Converting Oriental Adventures creatures

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Oh, that's quite complicated. What if either Parry or Ghostly Evasion count as AoOs, but Parry works against melee and ranged, while Ghostly Evasion works against attacks that allow a save for 1/2 damage? Then there's at least a reason for the Keeper to use each type of defense.
 

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Cleon

Legend
Oh, that's quite complicated. What if either Parry or Ghostly Evasion count as AoOs, but Parry works against melee and ranged, while Ghostly Evasion works against attacks that allow a save for 1/2 damage? Then there's at least a reason for the Keeper to use each type of defense.

I still prefer it to be effective against regular melee and ranged attacks. That's how it's portrayed in the movies I'm using as inspiration, such as Chinese Ghost Story II, where a spectral opponent vanishes just as it's about to be struck by a hero and then reappears unharmed.

I'm thinking the main difference is it can Parry and full attack, but if it uses its ghostly dodging defense it can only attack once (or no times). Maybe using it costs a Move action that turn to Ghost Step, but activating its "ghost dodge" is an immediate action.

Rather than bowdlerize it by making it work like Evasion, I'd rather just give it regular Evasion (or Improved Evasion) and drop Ghostly "Evasion" entirely, since it's not an ability that the original creature possessed.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
OK, I guess I have 2 possible issues with Ghostly Evasion as it was originally written. One, like you say, is that it's not in the original monster. Second is just that I think it needs more distinction from the Parry ability. I think I'm ok with adding Ghost Step/Evasion, so I'll go along if we can answer the second issue satisfactorily.

I think you're onto something with the economy of actions. Let's keep the parry the way it is, so it uses AoOs and requires a roll. To distinguish the ghostly stuff, let's make it work automatically against melee and ranged attacks and some variety of spells (rays, some other things I guess) but only be available once a round and take up some of the actions. Like you suggest, an immediate action to vanish, then a required move action to recorporealize should do it.
 

Cleon

Legend
OK, I guess I have 2 possible issues with Ghostly Evasion as it was originally written. One, like you say, is that it's not in the original monster. Second is just that I think it needs more distinction from the Parry ability. I think I'm ok with adding Ghost Step/Evasion, so I'll go along if we can answer the second issue satisfactorily.

I think you're onto something with the economy of actions. Let's keep the parry the way it is, so it uses AoOs and requires a roll. To distinguish the ghostly stuff, let's make it work automatically against melee and ranged attacks and some variety of spells (rays, some other things I guess) but only be available once a round and take up some of the actions. Like you suggest, an immediate action to vanish, then a required move action to recorporealize should do it.

So perhaps it uses an Immediate Action to activate it and become "Ghostly" but it must use a Ghost Step on its next initiative to return to the Prime Material plane?
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Yes, I like that.
So then leave Ghost Step the way you have it and write
Ghostly Evasion (Su): If the Keeper is targeted by a melee attack, a ranged attack, or a [targeted or area effect spell ??], it can avoid it by briefly becoming ethereal, vanishing for an instant and reappearing after the attack passes through the empty space it occupied. The Keeper becomes ethereal using an immediate action, which it must choose to take before any attack roll or saving throw is resolved. It cannot use this ability to avoid ghost touch weapons or attacks that affect the Ethereal Plane. The Keeper must then use a move action to return to the Material Plane on its next turn, as in its Ghost Step ability.

How does that work? We just need to work out what kind of spells to let it use it for.
 

Cleon

Legend
Yes, I like that.
So then leave Ghost Step the way you have it and write
Ghostly Evasion (Su): If the Keeper is targeted by a melee attack, a ranged attack, or a [targeted or area effect spell ??], it can avoid it by briefly becoming ethereal, vanishing for an instant and reappearing after the attack passes through the empty space it occupied. The Keeper becomes ethereal using an immediate action, which it must choose to take before any attack roll or saving throw is resolved. It cannot use this ability to avoid ghost touch weapons or attacks that affect the Ethereal Plane. The Keeper must then use a move action to return to the Material Plane on its next turn, as in its Ghost Step ability.

How does that work? We just need to work out what kind of spells to let it use it for.

Works for me.

I'd say it can use it to avoid any spell it knows is coming that can't affect the Ethereal Plane.

Do wonder about giving it a recharge time or percentage change.

Also, should we specify that it only evades a single attack? As written the implication is it remains Ethereal until its turn, so wouldn't subsequent enemy attacks whiff through it?
 

Cleon

Legend
Works for me.

I'd say it can use it to avoid any spell it knows is coming that can't affect the Ethereal Plane.

Do wonder about giving it a recharge time or percentage change.

Also, should we specify that it only evades a single attack? As written the implication is it remains Ethereal until its turn, so wouldn't subsequent enemy attacks whiff through it?

Upon reflection, I also quite like the "a special attack that allows a Reflex saving throw" formula of my rough draft.

However, "targeted by a special attack" will do for me at least for now.

It would be simpler if it could either Step or Evade in a round, but not both.

i.e.:

Ghost Step #2 (Su): The Keeper of the Keys can shift from the Material Plane to the Ethereal Plane as a free action, and shift back again as a move action (or during a move action). The Keeper cannot Ghost Step if it has already used Ghostly Evasion that round. This ability is otherwise identical with ethereal jaunt (caster level 15th).

Ghostly Evasion #2 (Su): If the Keeper is targeted by a melee attack, a ranged attack, or a special attack, it can avoid it by briefly becoming ethereal, vanishing for an instant and reappearing after the attack passes through the empty space it occupied. The Keeper becomes ethereal using an immediate action, which it must choose to take before any attack roll or saving throw is resolved. It cannot use this ability to avoid ghost touch weapons or attacks that affect the Ethereal Plane. If the Keeper uses Ghostly Evasion it cannot use Ghost Step on its turn.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Ahh, yes, that works. I'd almost just say it's simpler to make Ghostly Evasion immediate and Ghost Step swift, but doesn't the counter for actions reset at the start of the turn? Then Ghost Step would prevent Ghostly Evasion instead of vice versa.
 

Cleon

Legend
Ahh, yes, that works. I'd almost just say it's simpler to make Ghostly Evasion immediate and Ghost Step swift, but doesn't the counter for actions reset at the start of the turn? Then Ghost Step would prevent Ghostly Evasion instead of vice versa.

Yes, upon reflection "If the Keeper uses Ghostly Evasion it cannot use Ghost Step during the same round" would be a better wording than "on its turn" (I dub thee Ghostly Evasion #2a!).

Shall we use #2 or #2a and move on, rather than keep on debating the issue until we become cursed undead haunting the ruins of a once grand edifice as well?
 


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