Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

Cleon

Legend
Yes, I think we'll have to. I've got the CC index in an Excel spreadsheet so it'll be relatively simple to sort all the Fey into CR order.

The main CC contains the following Fey sorted by Challenge Rating and Name.

Name​
CR​
Dragite1/6
Killmoulis1/6
Squeaker1/4
Asrai1/2
Booka1/2
Dobie1/2
Ekrat1/2
Flitterling1/2
Sidhe1/2
Stwinger1/2
Atomie1
Bogeyman1
Bramble1
Brownie1
Faerie, Seelie1
Faerie, Unseelie1
Feystag (Calygraunt)1
Frost1
Gorse1
Haudhla1
Hurgeon1
Jogah, Oh-do-wa1
Leshy1
Lubin (Urisk)(1)
Sprite, Gremlin1
Boggie2
Bramble2
Buckawn2
Forlarren2
Gorse2
Kitsune Kasumi2
Kruel (Danartha)2
Nightshade2
Shargugh2
Swarm, Shike2
Urisk2 (Lubin 1)
Ashira3
Averx3
Birch Tree Spirit3
Bogey3
Callicantzaros3
Faerie Changeling3
Faerie Fiddler3
Fiery Face3
Gahonga3
Hamadryad3
Pech3
Plainsjan3
P'oh3
Quickling3
Baobhan Sith (Bavanshee)4
Batibat4
Faux Faerie4
Gloomwing (Flying Serpent)4
Korred4
Leprechaun4
Nymph, Grain4
Red Cap4
Silver Warrior4
Sprite, Splanxty4
Chac5
Chevall5
Hamadryad5
Quickling5
Sakina5
Shatjan5
Stone Maiden5
Agta6
Jogah, Ga-hon-ga6
Jogah, Gan-da-yah6
Manggus6
Nereid6
Silkie6
Thunder Child7
Actaeon9
Phouka9
Tikbalang9
Callicantzaros, Great10
Faedorne10
Faerie Phiz11
Adaro12
Leshy13
Wendigo, Great20
Lussina, the Dark Queen21
Faerie Queen22

The Crypt also contains the following:

Name​
CR​
Fossergrim4
Sirine4
Sylph7
 

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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Whew, yes, that seems like enough. I think I'd be ok going with the options from the SNA lists with a few lower level options (and maybe 1 or 2 at the SNA VIII level). It would also be good to stick to ones with 3.5 CC conversions, which cuts down the list a little.
At CR 1/2, flitterlings and maybe sidhe (the basic version) seem like they'd fit flavor-wise (I'm taking this around SNA I). Of the CR 1 options, I like the feystag, gorse, and maybe the hurgeon or lubin (urisk). What do you think?

Also, did you notice that the 3e and 3.5e leshy conversions in the CC are very different critters?
 

Cleon

Legend
Whew, yes, that seems like enough. I think I'd be ok going with the options from the SNA lists with a few lower level options (and maybe 1 or 2 at the SNA VIII level). It would also be good to stick to ones with 3.5 CC conversions, which cuts down the list a little.
At CR 1/2, flitterlings and maybe sidhe (the basic version) seem like they'd fit flavor-wise (I'm taking this around SNA I). Of the CR 1 options, I like the feystag, gorse, and maybe the hurgeon or lubin (urisk). What do you think?

Yes, I agree we ought to exclude the CC creatures that only have 3.0 conversions.

I'll do a new Listing with only the 3.5 creatures.

It's also worth considering alignment restrictions - of the summon nature's ally spells a lot of the Fey are Good and/or Chaotic, so a non-Good or non-Chaotic caprine would not be able to call upon them if it follows the usual spell rules. We should try to include at least one Neutral creature per level to make sure there's something any caprine could summon.

We should also remember so include a few "Unseelie" options for the few caprine who are Evil. The Bogeyman and Bramble look like tempting lowish-level options.

Also, remember we'll need to make allowances for magical abilities. Some Fey have SLAs or supernatural powers that make them very effective allies. Presumably that's why a grig is summon nature's ally IX with a magic fiddle but a standard fiddle-less grig doesn't even rate inclusion.

We can always arbitrarily restrict their SLA use, as Pixie in summon nature's ally VI & VII having "can't cast irresistible dance" while the IX version can use that SLA.

A decent rule-of-thumb is that their rank should be at least 1 higher than the level of the most powerful SLA they can use on an ally or enemy - i.e. a Fey with confusion (Sor/Wiz 4) ought to be at least Rank 5.

How about including standard Grigs as a rank 1 or 2 option? We can add them to my proposed additional "things from the SRD" list:

III? - Centaur [NG]
III - Owl, Giant [NG]
IV? - Grig [NG; without fiddle]
VIII? - Treant [NG]

How many options per "spell level equivalent" are we going to want? The summon nature's ally spells mostly have a dozen or so options per spell:

Summon Nature's Ally I - Eight Creatures
Dire Rat, Eagle (animal), Monkey (animal), Octopus (animal), Owl (animal), Porpoise (animal), Small Viper Snake (animal) & Wolf (animal)
Summon Nature's Ally II - Thirteen Creatures
Black Bear (animal), Crocodile (animal), Dire Badger, Dire Bat, Small Elemental (any), Hippogriff, Medium Shark (animal), Medium Viper Snake (animal), Squid (animal) & Wolverine (animal)
Summon Nature's Ally III - Eleven Creatures
Ape (animal), Dire Weasel, Dire Wolf, Giant Eagle [NG], Lion, Giant Owl [NG], Satyr [CN; without pipes], Large Shark (animal), Constrictor Snake (animal), Large Viper Snake (animal), Thoqqua
Summon Nature's Ally IV - Nineteen Creatures
Juvenile Arrowhawk, Brown Bear (animal), Giant Crocodile (animal), Deinonychus (dinosaur), Dire Ape, Dire Boar, Dire Wolverine, Medium Elemental (any), Flamebrother Salamander [NE], Sea Cat, Huge Shark (animal), Huge Viper Snake (animal), Tiger (animal), Juvenile Tojanida, Unicorn [CG], Minor Xorn
Summon Nature's Ally V - Sixteen Creatures
Adult Arrowhawk, Polar Bear (animal), Dire Lion, Elasmosaurus (dinosaur), Large Elemental (any), Griffon, Janni (genie), Rhinoceros (animal), Satyr [CN; with pipes], Giant Constrictor Snake (animal), Nixie (sprite), Adult Tojanida, Orca Whale (animal)
Summon Nature's Ally VI - Thirteen Creatures
Dire Bear, Huge Elemental (any), Elephant (animal), Girallon, Megaraptor (dinosaur), Giant Octopus (animal), Pixie (sprite) [NG; no special arrows], Average Salamander [NE], Baleen Whale, Average Xorn
Summon Nature's Ally VII - Fourteen Creatures
Elder Arrowhawk, Dire Tiger, Greater Elemental (any), Djinni (genie) [NG], Invisible Stalker, Pixie (sprite) [NG; with sleep arrows], Giant Squid (animal), Triceratops (dinosaur), Tyrannosaurus (dinosaur), Cachalot Whale (animal), Elder Xorn
Summon Nature's Ally VIII - Four Creatures
Dire Shark, Roc, Noble Salamander [NE], Elder Tojanida
Summon Nature's Ally IX - Seven Creatures
Elder Elemental (any), Grig (sprite) [NG; with fiddle], Pixie (sprite) [NG; with sleep and memory loss arrows], Celestial Charger Unicorn [CG]

At CR 1/2, flitterlings and maybe sidhe (the basic version) seem like they'd fit flavor-wise (I'm taking this around SNA I). Of the CR 1 options, I like the feystag, gorse, and maybe the hurgeon or lubin (urisk). What do you think?

We should definitely include the Sidhe in the table since they're Neutral so can respond to any caprine's summons. However, they have at-will invisibility which might be a bit too potent for "rank 1". Then again, I suspect I might include them just to fill out the numbers a bit.

Haudhla look a good alternative. They're Neutral and their SLAs aren't combatworthy. The defenses of DR 5/cold iron and SR 17 might be a bit problematic, but at least their AC and saves are moderate.

A Feystag's magic item manipulation powers are horribly exploitable. I'd probably leave them out entirely, but if we did include them I'd consider them a rank IX like a "Pixie with all the arrows".

Flitterlings are fine. Unless they're in a patch of 50+ flitterlings they can't use their powers.

Gorse look a bit too potent to rank 1. They have AC 25, perfect flight and empowered mirror image so they can last quite a long time before being hit, and their shortbows always include a "poison arrow" option.

Hurgeons would look OK if we did'nt worry about the caprine exploiting their 1/day entangle and hallucinatory terrain power. That'd likely put them on a Rank V summons.

The Oh-do-wa looks a good option for Rank 1.

The Lubin has 3/day charm person which seems a bit too meaty an ability for rank 1.

So in conclusion, I'm OK with the following:

Rank 1 summons
Jogah, Oh-do-wa [LN]
Flitterling [LG]
Haudhla
Sidhe

Also, did you notice that the 3e and 3.5e leshy conversions in the CC are very different critters?

Yes, while they're both based on the same Slavic forest guardian, the way more powerful 3.5 conversion is based on a 2E creature from Dragon #239 and the 3.0 conversion is based on a 1E Dragon #119 source. The CR 13 version seems closer to the original folklore in powers - a powerful entity capable of assuming giant size - although like a lot of folklore they're subject to a lot of variation, most of the representations of them I've come across have been of the "hair-covered old man" appearance like the CR 1 version though.

Anyhow, I don't think we should include the Leshy since they're bound to a forest like a Dryad is bound to a tree and the original ability couldn't summon dryads.
 

Cleon

Legend
Here's the 3.5 only list of Fey from the CC sorted by Challenge Rating and Name.

Name​
CR​
Dragite1/6
Booka1/2
Sidhe1/2
Ekrat1/2
Flitterling1/2
Bogeyman1
Bramble1
Faerie, Seelie (Diminutive)1
Faerie, Unseelie (Diminutive)1
Feystag (Calygraunt)1
Gorse1
Haudhla1
Hurgeon1
Jogah, Oh-do-wa1
Lubin (Urisk)1
Sprite, Gremlin1
Boggie2
Faerie, Seelie (Tiny)2
Faerie, Unseelie (Tiny)2
Kitsune Kasumi2
Kruel (Danartha)2
Shargugh2
Swarm, Shike2
Urisk2 (Lubin 1)
Ashira3
Averx3
Birch Tree Spirit3
Bogey3
Callicantzaros3
Faerie, Seelie (Small)3
Faerie, Unseelie (Small)3
Faerie Changeling3
Fiery Face3
Gahonga3
Plainsjan3
P'oh3
Baobhan Sith (Bavanshee)4
Batibat4
Faux Faerie4
Gloomwing (Flying Serpent)4
Leprechaun4
Leprechaun4
Silver Warrior4
Sprite, Splanxty4
Chac5
Chevall5
Faerie, Seelie (Medium)5
Faerie, Unseelie (Medium)5
Hamadryad5
Quickling5
Sakina5
Shatjan5
Stone Maiden5
Agta6
Jogah, Ga-hon-ga6
Jogah, Gan-da-yah6
Manggus6
Silkie6
Faerie, Seelie (Large)7
Faerie, Unseelie (Large)7
Thunder Child7
Actaeon9
Faerie, Seelie (Huge)9
Faerie, Unseelie (Huge)9
Phouka9
Tikbalang9
Callicantzaros, Great10
Faedorne10
Faerie Phiz11
Adaro12
Leshy13
Wendigo, Great20
Lussina, the Dark Queen21
Faerie Queen22

I noticed an error in the Seelie/Unseelie Faerie's CR that has been addressed.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Hmmm, I was just looking at CR. This is going to be a tad more complicated. But I can agree to the rank 1 list. If we can get 4-5 fey per level, I think we have enough, at least.
 

Cleon

Legend
But I can agree to the rank 1 list. If we can get 4-5 fey per level, I think we have enough, at least.

Upon reflection it seems a bit odd that the Urisk has a CR higher than the Lubin since presumably the CR does not include an entourage of animal companions since the Challenge Rating would vary wildly depending on what its furry buddies are. An Urisk with a Rat pal is quite a different proposition to one accompanied by four Dire Wolverines or Brown Bears.

Hmmm, I was just looking at CR. This is going to be a tad more complicated.

That seems to be how these conversions are going these days!

For Rank 2 Summons, how about:

Bogeyman (CE)
Boggie (any non-Good)
Bramble (NE)
Kitsune Kasumi
Kruel (C)
Sprite Gremlin (C)

Actually, maybe we should approach this in the other direction and figure out what Summon Rank a particular Sylvan creature ought to be. For example, a Shrike Swarm is a bit nastier than a Spider swarm since it has 50% more HP, higher AC and can fly. A 2nd level summon swarm spell can summon a spider swarm, so I'd eyeball a Shrike Swarm as being at least 3rd level.

I'd better rough out a Working Draft for the power while we're at it.
 
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Cleon

Legend
Summon Sylvan Folk: A caprine with a resonance score of 21 or more can summon fey or woodland beings to its aid. Unless otherwise stated, this power works like a summon nature's ally spell. This power cannot summon entities tied to a specific area or object such as dryads or shargugh. The number and power of the sylvan folk is limited by the caprine's Hit Dice as follows:

Sylvan Summoning Level Table
Caprine Hit DiceMaximum Summoning*
1–2summon sylvan folk I
3–4summon sylvan folk II
5–6summon sylvan folk III
7–8summon sylvan folk IV
9–10summon sylvan folk V
11–12summon sylvan folk VI
13–14summon sylvan folk VII
15–16summon sylvan folk VIII
17 or highersummon sylvan folk IX
*Caprines can also summon sylvan aid of any level lower than this maximum down to summon sylvan folk I.

A caprine can summon a uniform group of the same creature or a mixed group of two different creatures.

When summoning a uniform group, a caprine can summon any selection from the following table (down to a minimum of rank I creatures):

Sylvan Summons Table for Uniform Group
1 creatures of summons level rank
1d3 creatures of summons level rank–1
1d4+1 creatures of summons level rank–2
2d4+2 creatures of summons level rank–3
4d6 creatures of summons level rank–4
6d6 creatures of summons level rank–5
8d6 creatures of summons level rank–6
10d6 creatures of summons level rank–7
12d6 creatures of summons level rank–8

When summoning a mixed group, a caprine can summon one selection from Column A plus one selection from Column B of the following table:

Sylvan Summons Table for Mixed Group
Column AColumn B
1 creature of summons level rank–1
1d4+1 creatures of summons level rank–3
2d6 creatures of summons level rank–4
3d6 creatures of summons level rank–5
4d6 creatures of summons level rank–6
5d6 creatures of summons level rank–7
6d6 creatures of summons level rank–8
1d3 creatures of summons level rank–2
1d4+1 creatures of summons level rank–3
2d6 creatures of summons level rank–4
3d6 creatures of summons level rank–5
4d6 creatures of summons level rank–6
5d6 creatures of summons level rank–7
6d6 creatures of summons level rank–8

The following table groups representative sylvan creatures by their summoning rank. Additional creatures can be added at the DM's discretion:

Rank 1 Summons: Flitterling [LG], Haudhla, Oh-do-wa (jogah) [LN], Sidhe
Rank 2 Summons: Bogeyman [CE], Boggie [any non-Good], Bramble [NE], Kitsune Kasumi, Kruel [CN, CE], Gremlin (sprite)[any Chaotic]
Rank 3 Summons: Centaur [NG], Faerie Changeling [any non-Evil], Satyr [CN; without pipes]
Rank 4 Summons: Batibat [CN, no talisman], Callicantzaros [NE], Gahonga [CN], Grain Nymph, Giant Owl [NG]
Rank 5 Summons: Chevall [NG], Nixie (sprite) [Aquatic], Satyr [CN; with pipes], Shatjan [LN], Stone Maiden [NG], Unicorn [CG]
Rank 6 Summons: Agta [CN], Manggus [CE], Nereid [CN], Pixie (sprite) [NG; no special arrows], Sakina [CG]
Rank 7 Summons: Baobhan Sith [CE], Pixie (sprite) [NG; with sleep arrows], Korred [CN], Thunder Child [NE], Treant [NG]
Rank 8 Summons: Actaeon, Ga-hon-ga (jogah) [CG], Phouka (includes lach púca) [CN], Quickling [CE]
Rank 9 Summons: Great Callicantzaros [NE], Grig (sprite) [NG; with fiddle], Leprechaun, Pixie (sprite) [NG; with sleep & memory loss arrows and can cast irresistible dance], Unicorn Celestial Charger [CG]
 
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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Ugh, why is it weeks that I have a small break from work end up worse for posting?

Anyway, the working draft looks good, and so do the proposed rank 2 critters. If you have any thoughts on the other ranks, I'm happy to hear them since digging through the whole list is probably too much for me to manage right now without some guidelines.
 

Cleon

Legend
Ugh, why is it weeks that I have a small break from work end up worse for posting?

Anyway, the working draft looks good, and so do the proposed rank 2 critters.

Updating Summon Sylvan Folk Rough Draft.

If you have any thoughts on the other ranks, I'm happy to hear them since digging through the whole list is probably too much for me to manage right now without some guidelines.
I'll go through the list and come up with some proposals for the other ranks.
 

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