Converting Planescape monsters

[Cleon]

Shall we get going on the ash quasi?

I thought we already are.

As I said in an earlier post, shall we start on the 'warmth draining' special attack?

 

[freyar]

I had felt a bit sidetracked by the subtypes again.

OK, we have

While not cold in themselves, Ash quasi-elementals suck up the heat from their surroundings, so that all within 30’ Suffer 1-6 hp damage from heat loss for each round. Creatures which are cold-based (though not those which are cold-blooded) are immune to this effect. In addition, the Ash quasi-elemental can narrow the focus of this draining effect to a cone 60’ Long and 30’ across at the base. Those within this area take 2-12 hp damage. In addition, the force of this inward blast can snuff out torches and small campfires.

and

Anyone within 30 feet of the creature automatically suffers 1d6 points of damage per round. The quasielemental doesn’t need to make an attack roll, and the victim doesn’t get to make a saving throw. Creatures of cold — such as undead, white dragons, and frost salamanders — suffer no harm from the ash quasielemental’s heat-draining effect. Note, however, that merely being cold-blooded doesn’t protect a viction.

If it so chooses, the ash quasielemental can focus its draining effect into a conelike area 60 feet long and 30 feet wide at the base. Those within the cone suffer 2d6 points of damage per round from the loss of body heat. What’s more, this attack can extinguish a normal flame, such as a torch or a campfire.

If the ash quasielemental actually touches a sod in combat, its heat drain inflicts 1d6 points of damage plus 1 additional point per Hit Die of the elemental creature (6, 9, or 12). Note that the victim also suffers the normal damage from being within 30 feet of the quasielemental — the radius effect requires no effort on the monster’s part (unless it’s focusing the draining power into a cone).

So, it's a cold aura of 1d6 damage per round plus a 1d6 (or more) cold touch attack (presumably advancing by HD rather than bonus hp damage). The tricky part is the cone. For simplicity, I think I'd make the cone work something like a cold breath weapon that it can use once per so many rounds, but we could just allow it to shape the aura, which is how I read the original but doesn't seem to have much precedent in 3e. How do you prefer to go?

 

[Cleon]

I had felt a bit sidetracked by the subtypes again.

So, it's a cold aura of 1d6 damage per round plus a 1d6 (or more) cold touch attack (presumably advancing by HD rather than bonus hp damage). The tricky part is the cone. For simplicity, I think I'd make the cone work something like a cold breath weapon that it can use once per so many rounds, but we could just allow it to shape the aura, which is how I read the original but doesn't seem to have much precedent in 3e. How do you prefer to go?

What confused me was that it didn't work on undead, which made me wonder about making it some kind of vampiric hit-point draining attack. (Well it's a Negative Energy linked creature, so it could fit).

Then I recalled that quite a few AD&D undead have immunity or resistance to cold, so it made more sense.

So, I suppose cold damage is fine, and I'd prefer it to be "focusable" into a cone as a standard action.

I guess I'll leave the "life draining" version for my Cleon Special - it's getting specialer by the day!

 

[freyar]

How about something like this?

Cold Aura (Su): An ash quasi-elemental radiates an aura of cold energy that does 1d6 hp of cold damage per round to all creatures within 30 ft. As a standard action, the ash quasi-elemental can reshape this aura into a 30 ft cone which does 2d6 hp cold damage per round. The quasi-elemental can return the aura to a sphere as a standard action.

I reduced the cone's length to keep the area the same (cones in 3.5e are all 90 degrees).

 

[Cleon]

How about something like this?

Cold Aura (Su): An ash quasi-elemental radiates an aura of cold energy that does 1d6 hp of cold damage per round to all creatures within 30 ft. As a standard action, the ash quasi-elemental can reshape this aura into a 30 ft cone which does 2d6 hp cold damage per round. The quasi-elemental can return the aura to a sphere as a standard action.

I reduced the cone's length to keep the area the same (cones in 3.5e are all 90 degrees).

Eh? You've got them both the same length. To be the same area a 90º cone would have to be twice as long, or 60 ft. in this case.

I'd also have the damage and radii vary according to the Quasi-Elemental's size.

It doesn't seem right to have a Small Ash Quasi drain the same as an Elder one.

 

[freyar]

In the original text, the cone was 60 ft long with a 30 ft base. That's an area (neglecting the height) of 1/2(30*60)=900 sq ft. In 3.5e, the cones are all 45-45-90 triangles in "ground area" with base width = twice the cone length. To get 900 sq ft out of that shape triangle, you'd have a 30 ft cone in 3e speak.

But yes, I do generally agree to changing either the size or damage amount of the aura with the "age" of the quasi-elemental. Maybe both.

 

[Cleon]

In the original text, the cone was 60 ft long with a 30 ft base. That's an area (neglecting the height) of 1/2(30*60)=900 sq ft. In 3.5e, the cones are all 45-45-90 triangles in "ground area" with base width = twice the cone length. To get 900 sq ft out of that shape triangle, you'd have a 30 ft cone in 3e speak.

So you want the cone to match the area of the AD&D version?

In that case your sums are still wrong. A 60' by 30' triangle has twice the area of a 30' by 30' triangle. You'd need a triangle approximately 42.4' by 42.4' to get 900 square feet out of the same shape.

That's closest to a 40 ft. cone, but if we make it 45 ft. we can have the focused cone radius equal 1.5 times the "unfocused" radius.

However, I prefer a cone = double aura approach so we can keep the original's 60 foot range.

But yes, I do generally agree to changing either the size or damage amount of the aura with the "age" of the quasi-elemental. Maybe both.

I'm thinking it might be best to make the radius change with size and the damage change with age. e.g.

Small 5 ft. 1d3 aura, 10 ft. 1d6 cone
Medium 10 ft. 1d4 aura, 20 ft. 1d8 cone
Large 20 ft. 1d6 aura, 40 ft. 2d6 cone
Huge 30 ft. 1d8 aura, 60 ft. 2d8 cone
Greater 30 ft. 1d10 aura, 60 ft. 3d6 cone
Elder 30 ft. 1d12 aura, 60 ft. 3d8 cone
Monolith 40 ft. 2d6 aura, 80 ft. 4d6 cone

The SRD Elementals don't have their SA damage and area change from Huge to Elder, but I don't agree with that!

 

[freyar]

The triangles are different shapes. In 3.5, a cone "shoots away from you in a quarter-circle in the direction you designate" according to the SRD. That's a right triangle. If the length of the right triangle is 30 ft, the base of it is 60 ft (since it's a triangle with 2 45 degree angles and 1 90 degree angle located at the caster). That has the same area as the AD&D "conelike area 60 feet long and 30 feet wide at the base." Granted, I'm ignoring the circular bits at the end of the cones, but I'll consider that a rounding error for this exercise.

 

[Cleon]

The triangles are different shapes. In 3.5, a cone "shoots away from you in a quarter-circle in the direction you designate" according to the SRD. That's a right triangle. If the length of the right triangle is 30 ft, the base of it is 60 ft (since it's a triangle with 2 45 degree angles and 1 90 degree angle located at the caster). That has the same area as the AD&D "conelike area 60 feet long and 30 feet wide at the base." Granted, I'm ignoring the circular bits at the end of the cones, but I'll consider that a rounding error for this exercise.

Unfortunately, your trigometry is wrong.

A triangle with a 60 foot base and two 30 foot sides has been flattened into a straight line - that's a "180 degree triangle" not a "right triangle". 30 + 30 = 60, so all the sides would have to be parallel.

A right-angle triangle with two 30-foot long sides has a base roughly 42 feet long, not 60 feet.

The formula for the base of a symmetrical triangle's base is 2 * length * sin (half angle) => 2 * 30 * sin (45) = 42.4264 feet.

 

[freyar]

I think the problem we're having is filling in the ends of the cone differently when we approximate them by triangles. I'm taking the "length of the cone" to be the height of the triangle and adding extra area, whereas you're taking the length of the cone to be side of the triangle and cutting off a small segment at the end of the cone. It might partly be because the AD&D text and 3.5e rules seem to describe the cones in different ways.

OK, let's see. I guess the point is that we should really compare the area of the circular segment areas. I get that the side of the AD&D triangle, which from my reading has height 60 ft, is about 62 ft. The opening angle of the cone is 2 times arctan(15/60). Meanwhile, the 3.5e cone has opening angle \pi/2 in radians, so the areas are the same if the 3.5 cone has radius of about 35 ft. (That's throwing it into my calculator.) So I guess we can choose either 30 ft or 40 ft for the size of our cone.