Planescape Converting Planescape monsters

[Shade]

I agree that Knowledgeable might be an interesting idea (wasn't there a second creature with that ability?).

Sure enough. One of my absolute faves, the chronotyryn.

 

[BOZ]

should have posted this before, but enworld has an old noctral conversion: http://66.34.111.89/Eric/conversions/noctral.rtf there might not be much we can glean from there, but you never know.

I wondered the same thing, and drew the same conclusion.

Doesn't really look to me as if the owl archon and the noctral share more than superficial similarities. They seem like different creatures.

oh no, you're absolutely right. I wasn't suggesting that the owl archon is supposed to be a misguided conversion of the noctral or anything, but I was imagining that the designer might have said "what is this noctral business? If we need to have an owl creature, maybe we could have another archon?"


"Noctrals have a gentle hooting call, but otherwise do not speak (except through magic).

Noctrals communicate with mortals using telepathy, and with animals using their speak to animals ability."

Aha! I thought I had seen that. Just needed to find it again. So, keep in mind, that they never speak in an intelligible language. (makes me wonder why they have tongues as a spell-like?)

Posting this again:
"They have a natural telepathy ability that they use to communicate with most mortal creatures, with a 1-mile range. The noctral's intelligence allows it to effectively defect lie when telepathically conversing with a human or demihuman."

Note that it's suggesting that the detect lie is almost a natural (Ex) ability, because the creature is so intelligent.

True. I suppose we could roll 'em into one ability, and call it "honest telepathy" or somesuch. Or just leave it as it is, but add the caveat in parentheses.

well, I was thinking about merely including it under the Telepathy description, but then since telepathy doesn't always have a description, maybe we could just go with:

Discern Lies (Ex??): When a noctral is using telepathy to communicate with a humanoid, it can discern lies, as the spell (caster level Xth) as a free action. The humanoid can resist with a DC X Will save. The save DC is Charisma-based.


Reproducing the mortai's legend lore ability. The noctral would not have as powerful of an ability though:

Legend Lore (Su): A mortai can duplicate the effects of a legend lore spell, as a free action. A mortai receives this information instantly, and the information is always accurate as if the mortai had the person or thing at hand or was in the place in question.

Gave some more thought to the loremaster idea. I'm not too sure about that one. Since it is essentially the same as bardic knowledge, that seems a bit unpredictable to me. Bardic knowledge is more about hearsay and learning from poems and songs, and chatter on the street. A noctral is essentially a sage and teacher, a master of knowledge. A "lore" ability might be a good add-on, but its main source of information should be its Knowledge skill, along with a legend lore power.

I like the loremaster angle. For a third option, from the xerfilstyx:

Knowledgeable (Ex): Swimming for so long in the River Styx has made xerfilstyxes some of the most knowledgeable beings in Baator. A xerfilstyx makes Knowledge checks for any Knowledge skills as if it had a minimum of 10 ranks in that skill. To surpass the 10-rank minimum, the xerfilstyx must assign more than 10 ranks to the skill as normal.

I can't say this as a fact, but let me give you my opinion as to why this ability works the way it does. What does the River Styx do? It steals memories. Therefore, one might assume that the river is full of information stolen from people. Thus, a creature such as the xerfilstyx which is immune to the effects of the river, would be swimming around in this knowledge constantly, wouldn't it? I don't think a noctral is subject to the same circumstances, so I don't know that I would want to use this ability.

I agree that Knowledgeable might be an interesting idea (wasn't there a second creature with that ability?).

Sure enough. One of my absolute faves, the chronotyryn.

how does that one compare?

 

[Shade]

"Noctrals have a gentle hooting call, but otherwise do not speak (except through magic).

Noctrals communicate with mortals using telepathy, and with animals using their speak to animals ability."

Aha! I thought I had seen that. Just needed to find it again. So, keep in mind, that they never speak in an intelligible language. (makes me wonder why they have tongues as a spell-like?)

I think they are stating that they don't naturally communicate with nonanimals with a language, but can rely on telepathy and tongues to communicate with them.

Posting this again:
"They have a natural telepathy ability that they use to communicate with most mortal creatures, with a 1-mile range. The noctral's intelligence allows it to effectively defect lie when telepathically conversing with a human or demihuman."

Note that it's suggesting that the detect lie is almost a natural (Ex) ability, because the creature is so intelligent.

well, I was thinking about merely including it under the Telepathy description, but then since telepathy doesn't always have a description, maybe we could just go with:

Discern Lies (Ex??): When a noctral is using telepathy to communicate with a humanoid, it can discern lies, as the spell (caster level Xth) as a free action. The humanoid can resist with a DC X Will save. The save DC is Charisma-based.

That looks fine, but I think it should be supernatural. I just can't picture this ability ever being extraordinary. Maybe it's just me, though.

I can't say this as a fact, but let me give you my opinion as to why this ability works the way it does. What does the River Styx do? It steals memories. Therefore, one might assume that the river is full of information stolen from people. Thus, a creature such as the xerfilstyx which is immune to the effects of the river, would be swimming around in this knowledge constantly, wouldn't it? I don't think a noctral is subject to the same circumstances, so I don't know that I would want to use this ability.

how does that one compare?

Essentially the same, except that chronotyryns are simply "hoarders of knowledge", so I think we could use it.

Knowledgeable (Ex): A chronotyryn makes Knowledge checks for any Knowledge skills as if it had a minimum of 10 ranks in that skill. To surpass the 10-rank minimum, the chronotyryn must assign more than 10 ranks to the skill as normal.

 

[BOZ]

I think they are stating that they don't naturally communicate with nonanimals with a language, but can rely on telepathy and tongues to communicate with them.

perhaps so. Or, perhaps back in the day, telepathy did not guarantee that you could speak someone's language, and the noctral was incapable of human speech. Since it isn't a major issue and there's no clear answer, I'll leave it that it does not speak aloud except by the tongues spell, and uses telepathy for most communication with sentients.

That looks fine, but I think it should be supernatural. I just can't picture this ability ever being extraordinary. Maybe it's just me, though.

I don't know - I was thinking that it could be something like a kickass sense motive check that you could tell when someone is lying. But you're probably right.

Essentially the same, except that chronotyryns are simply "hoarders of knowledge", so I think we could use it.

hmm... I think I'm going to have to prefer to keep it really basic:

Legend Lore (Sp): Three times per day, a noctral can use legend lore, as the spell (caster level 15th).

And maybe tack on a version of the loremaster ability for at will use?

 

[Shade]

perhaps so. Or, perhaps back in the day, telepathy did not guarantee that you could speak someone's language, and the noctral was incapable of human speech. Since it isn't a major issue and there's no clear answer, I'll leave it that it does not speak aloud except by the tongues spell, and uses telepathy for most communication with sentients.

Perhaps it was that way. I think that'll work.

I don't know - I was thinking that it could be something like a kickass sense motive check that you could tell when someone is lying. But you're probably right.

Gotcha...but wouldn't that be represented by a big bonus to Sense Motive instead?

hmm... I think I'm going to have to prefer to keep it really basic:

Legend Lore (Sp): Three times per day, a noctral can use legend lore, as the spell (caster level 15th).

And maybe tack on a version of the loremaster ability for at will use?

Sounds like a plan.

 

[BOZ]

Gotcha...but wouldn't that be represented by a big bonus to Sense Motive instead?

point taken... we could always do both - give it a Su discern lies ability, and some nice ranks in Sense Motive.

Sounds like a plan.

giving it both the simplified legend lore, and a loremaster ability?

 

[Shade]

point taken... we could always do both - give it a Su discern lies ability, and some nice ranks in Sense Motive.

That's simply....genius.

giving it both the simplified legend lore, and a loremaster ability?

Yep.

 

[BOZ]

That's simply....genius.

pssh!

 

[BOZ]

Lore Keeper (Ex?): A noctral has the ability to know legends or information regarding various topics, just as a bard can with bardic knowledge. The noctral adds its Hit Dice and its Intelligence modifier to the lore check, which functions otherwise exactly like a bardic knowledge check.

Spell-Like Abilities: At will—invisibility, speak with animals. Caster level Xth. (8?)

Telepathy (Su): A noctral can communicate telepathically with any creature within 1 mile that has a language.


“Noctrals' hearing has a range four times greater than that of a normal human.”

anything we need to do with that?

“ These increased senses make surprising a noctral extremely difficult. During the time from sunset to sunrise, noctrals cannot be surprised. During daylight hours (during which they are normally sleeping), noctrals can only be surprised on a 1-2.”

In this conversion (http://66.34.111.89/Eric/conversions/noctral.rtf ) we have:

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): During the time from sunset to sunrise, noctrals are never caught flat-footed and cannot be flanked.

“In twilight, their feathers cloak them in soft, silent shadow.”

situational Hide bonus?

 

[Shade]

Lore Keeper (Ex?): A noctral has the ability to know legends or information regarding various topics, just as a bard can with bardic knowledge. The noctral adds its Hit Dice and its Intelligence modifier to the lore check, which functions otherwise exactly like a bardic knowledge check.

It seems like an (Ex) ability to me.

Spell-Like Abilities: At will—invisibility, speak with animals. Caster level Xth. (8?)

8th should be fine.

Telepathy (Su): A noctral can communicate telepathically with any creature within 1 mile that has a language.

You don't need to include this anymore, unless you are going to add in additional details regarding discern lies. Usually it just shows up on the SQ line now, like darkvision.

“Noctrals' hearing has a range four times greater than that of a normal human.”

anything we need to do with that?

I think a bonus on Listen checks should cover it.

“ These increased senses make surprising a noctral extremely difficult. During the time from sunset to sunrise, noctrals cannot be surprised. During daylight hours (during which they are normally sleeping), noctrals can only be surprised on a 1-2.”

Uncanny Dodge is a good idea.

“In twilight, their feathers cloak them in soft, silent shadow.”

situational Hide bonus?

But of course.