Converting prehistoric creatures

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Cleon

Legend
As far as I can see, these statistics look good. I don't know if I am qualified to comment on their balance and integrity, but they seem super-cool to me. Anyone else on input? -will

Ta Xidoraven, what do you think of the idea of giving them Fortification instead of blanket Critical immunity when rolled up?

Oh heck, I think I'll do it. I prefer the second version with the additional 50% step, so I'll edit the Pangolins' stats once I find the time.

I think a better solution is giving a Pangolin in an Armoured Ball something like Fortification. Indeed the tougher varieties of Pangolin could have some Fortification when uncurled.

I'm thinking:

Pangolin, Tree Pangolin, Eomanis: Light Fortification (25% chance of negating Critical Hit)
Dire Pangolin: Moderate Fortification (75% Critical negation), Light Fortification when uncurled.
Kaiju Pangolin (Castle Eater): Heavy Fortification (100% Critical negation), Moderate Fortification when uncurled.

I'm tempted to introduce an intermediate 50% step, we could call it "Mild Fortification", thus:

Small-sized Pangolin, Tree Pangolin, Eomanis: Light Fortification (25% chance of negating Critical Hit)
Medium-sized Pangolin, Dire Pangolin: Mild Fortification (50% Critical negation), Light Fortification when uncurled.
Large-Sized (Giant) Dire Pangolin: Moderate Fortification (75% Critical negation), Light Fortification when uncurled.
Kaiju Pangolin (Castle Eater): Heavy Fortification (100% Critical negation), Moderate Fortification when uncurled.
 

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Cleon

Legend
Okay, I've changed the Pangolins to have fortification.

I think they're all finished now, unless you can find something wrong with any of them!
 

xidoraven

Explorer
I like the idea of the chance within Fortification instead of the cut & dry method of lowered critical threat range. I forget about fortification... Which well-known creature has that as a precedent?

I knew you would follow your gut on it. ;) I think it looks great. Can't complain, and it sets me up to begin work on the dinopriminal version.

On to the next one? Potatotherium cries out for attention. :p (Potamotherium draft: Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible)

Dire Animal, Dire Otter (Potamotherium)
From Potamotherium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 3d8+6 (22 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 25 ft. (5 squares), swim 35 ft. (7 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+3 Dex, +2 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+2
Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d6-1)
Full Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d6-1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Hold breath, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +6, Will +5
Abilities: Str 8, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 7
Skills: Balance +9, Climb (Dex) +8, Escape Artist +7, Listen +6, Spot +6, Swim (Dex) +11
Feats: Weapon Finesse (Bite), Great Fortitude, Alertness (B), Agile (B)
Environment: Temperate Aquatic (freshwater rivers & lakeshores)
Organization: Solitary, pair, or family (3–12)
Challenge Rating: 2
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 4-6 HD (Medium), 7-10 (Large)
Level Adjustment: —

Potamotherii inhabit coastal regions of rivers and lakes throughout temperate lands, preying on small fish and insects. They sometimes become familiars to aquatic sorcerers or wizards, or animal companions to similar druids or rangers.

Combat
Potamotherium is an inquisitive animal. They fight only if cornered, and generally avoid contact with terrestrial civilizations in most cases.

Hold Breath (Ex): Potamotherium can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 4
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
I couldn't keep up with all the pangolin-related critters, but I'll jump back in on this one.

Here are the otter stats from Stormwrack...

Otter
Tiny Animal
Hit Dice: ½d8+1 (3 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), swim 20 ft.
Armor Class: 14 (+2 size, +2 Dex), touch 14, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-12
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d3-4)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d3-4)
Space/Reach: 2-½ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Hold breath, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +1
Abilities: Str 3, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 5
Skills: Balance +6, Climb +6, Listen +3, Spot +3, Swim +10
Feats: Weapon Finesse
Environment: Temperate aquatic
Organization: Solitary, pair, or family (3-12)
Challenge Rating: ¼
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: -
Level Adjustment: -

Hold Breath (Ex): An otter can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 4 times its Constitution score before it risks drowning. For a typical otter, this is 48 rounds, or 5 minutes.

Skills: An otter has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

Otters have a +4 racial bonus on Balance and Climb checks. The use their Dexterity modifier for Climb and Swim checks.
 

Rappy

First Post
I never quite got the low damage from otters in Stormwrack. Otters may look cute, but their dentition is rather nasty. They're a mustelid, after all. Then again, 1d3 is the same thing weasels get...
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
Hmm...the Wikipedia article seems to indicate it is quite a bit smaller than the 3 HD dire weasel.

Otter: Str 3, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 5
Weasel: Str 3, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 5
Dire Weasel: Str 14, Dex 19, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 11

Based on all that, I'd recommend 2 HD, Str 12, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 11.
 


Cleon

Legend
I like the idea of the chance within Fortification instead of the cut & dry method of lowered critical threat range. I forget about fortification... Which well-known creature has that as a precedent?

None really, the closest I can think of are warforged, which can get natural fortification with a feat. I just borrowed the idea from a dinosaur thread on paizo which suggested giving fortification to Ankylosaurus.
 

Cleon

Legend
Hmm...the Wikipedia article seems to indicate it is quite a bit smaller than the 3 HD dire weasel.

Otter: Str 3, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 5
Weasel: Str 3, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 5
Dire Weasel: Str 14, Dex 19, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 11

Based on all that, I'd recommend 2 HD, Str 12, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 11.

I was thinking the stats Xidoraven posted were for a dire version of Potamotherium.

The stats look alright, except I'd give them Cha 7 or so for the non-dire version. A giant weasel is 10 feet long and these are 5 feet, which suggests Small size for a regular Potamotherium. We can always do a dire version as well.

EDIT: Checking on the living species of giant otter, Pteronura brasiliensis, it's a bit bigger than Potamotherium and is just on the border of the 3E Small/Medium divide, being 5-6 feet long and 45-100 pounds. I'm acting on the presumption that the "River Beast" could have been a Small-sized 40-50 pounds animal, but it could easily be Medium-sized and a bit heavier. :END EDIT

EDITED EDIT: Further on that, I found a webpage with the Proceedings of the San Diego Society of Natural History which contains the following: "The body weight of Potamotherium (based on regression of dental dimensions in living carnivorans) has been estimated as 7.3 kg (Legendre and Roth 1988)", and a number of other sources that quote weights in the 5-15 kg or somewhere under 30, so it looks like it should be Small.

Well, there was one page that said they were 8 foot long and weighed 450 pounds, must have been talking about a dire Potamotherium! :END EDITED EDIT

Not so sure about the 2 Hit Dice. 1 HD might be enough, but I'll leave it at 2 for the time being.

Oh, and I agree with Rappy that they need a respectable bite damage. How about a Small-sized regular version with a 1d6 bite, and a Medium-sized dire version with a 2d6 bite?

Something like:

Potamotherium
Small Animal

Hit Dice: 2d8+2 (11 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), swim 30 ft.
Armor Class: 15 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +1 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/-1
Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+1) [includes bonus Weapon Finesse feat]
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: ?
Special Qualities: Hold breath, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +6, Will +1
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7



Oh, and the typo "Potatotherium" is just begging to be converted into some kind of plant monster, a Tuber Beast which takes extra damage from oil and hot fat, presumably.;)
 
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Shade

Monster Junkie
If we make the Potamotherium the "dire otter", I wouldn't want to then make a dire version of it. That would result in a "dire dire otter". :)

On the other hand, if you want to just make Potamotherium its own beast, and then make a separate "dire otter", I'd be on-board for your proposals.
 

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