Converting prehistoric creatures

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Cleon

Legend
I'm afraid there's a fair few stat errors in these, in order:

The Pangolin:
AC has +1 Dex bonus, not the +2 from Dex 14.
Claw attack should be +3 (+0 BAB, +2 Weapon Finesse, +1 for size Small).
Saves should be Fort +5 (+2 HD, +3 Con), Ref +4 (+2 HD, +2 Dex), Will +2 (+0 HD, +2 Wis)
Skills - it only seems to have 1 skill point, when it should have 4, and its Hide does not include the +4 for size Small. Assuming it puts 1 skill point in each skill, it would have Escape Artist +3, Hide +11, Listen +7, Spot +7

The Eomanis
Claw attack should be +4 (+1 BAB, +0 Weapon Finesse, +1 Weapon Focus, +2 for size Tiny) and should do 1d4-2 damage (Strength penalty from Str 7)
Saves should be Fort +5 (+3 HD, +2 Con), Ref +3 (+3 HD, +0 Dex), Will +0 (+0 HD, +0 Wis)
Skills - A creature with a Climb speed normally gets a +8 racial bonus to climb, not +4, so its Climb should be +6 (+8 racial, -2 Str).

As far as the design goes, isn't natural armour +6 a bit high for the Pangolin, and 2 Hit Dice seems rather a lot for a Tiny animal.

Oh, and for the "Dire Pangolin" I'd think it would work better as a Large monster, since it has 8 hit dice.
 

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xidoraven

Explorer
Yeah, I think you should start a thread here for the dinopriminals. The best place for it would be in the Homebrews forum, and you/we could move the existing dinopriminals over there.

Also I think that the eomanis' scales shouldn't do any more than 1d3 damage to an attacking foe, and they shouldn't damage weapons. If we're making a small animal, it shouldn't be really complicated.

New Thread in Homebrews

I leave Eomanis up to the experts. For a dire Eomanis, I would prefer a medium-sized basis, so that small and tiny humanoids could be riding it on custom saddles. :D Just imagine, and smile.
 

Cleon

Legend
Yeah, I think you should start a thread here for the dinopriminals. The best place for it would be in the Homebrews forum, and you/we could move the existing dinopriminals over there.

Also I think that the eomanis' scales shouldn't do any more than 1d3 damage to an attacking foe, and they shouldn't damage weapons. If we're making a small animal, it shouldn't be really complicated.

Most artificial weapons have hardness 5-10, so 1d3 damage would never damage them. Natural weapons rarely have hardness, of course, so unless the attacker has DR they risk being hurt when attacking a pangolin.

Hmm, that gives me an idea, perhaps the pangolins could have a bit of universal Damage Resistance, say DR 2/- increased to 5/- when they roll in a ball, for their armoured scales? I don't much care for them being very hard to hit (high AC from high natural armour), but they need something to make them a "tough nut to crack".

Oh, and while we're on the subject of DR, pangolins have claws so tough they can tear through termite mounds, some of which have a consistency rivaling concrete, so shouldn't they have some kind of "iron-hard claws" special attack that lets their claws defeat hardnesses up to 5 or 8 or so?
 

xidoraven

Explorer
Actually, that might make more sense than having a bulky natural AC. I still think it should affect the critical threat, if either to lessening the threat range, doing 1-1/2 damage, etc.

I and think a line should be made here to separate Eomanis (only partially scaled-covered, lacking tail and legs scales) and modern pangolins, which are all fully-scaled and unlike Eomanis' most closely related modern cousin, Eurotamandua - which has no scales at all.

Considering this point, I would raise its natural DR by no more than 2, and probably even 1, with a +3 to +5 raise of universal DR by defensive ball if DR is chosen over natural AC bonus.

Also, I am nominating a review/revision of Potamotherium for the next-up creature. :D I really do have a whole list. There were a lot of prehistoric gems drafted out there in the vast, but never refined - I myself, being one of those simply-can't-finish authors, tried my hand at altering an otter from Stormwrack with a Dire template outfitting....
 

Cleon

Legend
Actually, that might make more sense than having a bulky natural AC. I still think it should affect the critical threat, if either to lessening the threat range, doing 1-1/2 damage, etc.

I and think a line should be made here to separate Eomanis (only partially scaled-covered, lacking tail and legs scales) and modern pangolins, which are all fully-scaled and unlike Eomanis' most closely related modern cousin, Eurotamandua - which has no scales at all.

Well after doing a bit of Googling around there's some opinion that Eurotamandua is not actually a pangolin, but either a Xenarthran or Afredentata, but I'm not qualified to judge on this.

Eomanis looks more like a tree pangolin to me, being small & presumably fairly light (since it is not as heavily scaled). Maybe that should be what we should be modelling?

As for Potamotherium. AD&D had giant otters, and there's probably a 3E conversion of them floating around here somewhere. Their stats would probably serve.

I'm inclined to stat up a ground pangolin from scratch, then down-size it to a tree pangolin and use the latter (maybe slightly modified) for Eomanis, and then do a "Dire Pangolin".
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
As for Potamotherium. AD&D had giant otters, and there's probably a 3E conversion of them floating around here somewhere. Their stats would probably serve.

For some reason I read that as "Potatotherium", which led me down a long, dark road pondering Dire Tubers...
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I'll be happy to stat up whatever anyone tells me to. I'm just confused about which critter we're thinking of. ;)
 

Cleon

Legend
I'm inclined to stat up a ground pangolin from scratch, then down-size it to a tree pangolin and use the latter (maybe slightly modified) for Eomanis, and then do a "Dire Pangolin".

Okay, I've finished my take on the pangolin and its variants. I've got to start work, so I'll post them this evening.
 

Cleon

Legend
Pangolin

Pangolin
Small Animal
Hit Dice: 1d8+5 (9 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), burrow 5 ft. (earth only)
Armour Class: 15 (+1 size, +1 Dex, +3 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/–5 [+7 to resist unrolling]
Attack: Claw +3 melee (1d4-1) or tail-slap +3 melee (1d4-1)
Full Attack: 2 claws +3 melee (1d4-1) or tail-slap +3 melee (1d4-1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Rock-hard claws, shivering scales, stink-spray
Special Qualities: Armoured ball, DR 2/–, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +1
Abilities: Str 8, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 6
Skills: Climb +8, Hide +7, Listen +5, Survival +2* [+6 tracking by scent], Swim +5
Feats: Athletic, Track(B), Toughness(B), Weapon Finesse(B)
Environment: Warm forests or plains
Organization: Solitary or Family (2-8)
Challenge Rating: 1/2
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: 2 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment:

A low-slung animal with broad scales which give it a texture resembling a scaly artichoke. These scales cover its entire body, including its four short yet sturdy legs and long, flat tail. Its forelegs are armed with great curved claws
, which fold onto its palms when it walks. The animal's head has small eyes and a tapering snout ending in a ridiculously small mouth.

A pangolin is an insectivore with similar habits to an ant-eater. These nocturnal creatures use their keen sense of smell to find ant and termite's nests which they break open with their powerful foreclaws, then lick the insects up with their foot-long sticky tongues.

These quadrupeds walk upon the soles of their hindfeet and the knuckles of their forefeet, with their foreclaws folded away on their palms to prevent them being damaged. Pangolins can rear up onto their hind-legs to claw tall objects or look around, propping themselves up with their broad tails.

Despite their ungainly appearance, pangolins are good climbers. These stats represent a typical ground pangolin. A smaller variety, the tree pangolin, is arboreal (see below).

A pangolin can burrow through materials with hardness of 5 or less, such as earth and termite mounds.

A typical pangolin is roughly 3 feet long, about half of which is tail, and weighs around 30 pounds. The largest species of pangolin, the giant pangolin Manis gigantea, can reach Medium size, growing up to 6' long and 70 pounds.

Combat
Pangolins are not aggressive animals. If attacked or threatened, their preferred defence it to roll into an armoured ball, although they usually try to avoid threats first – usually by hiding, burrowing or climbing a tree, since they are too slow to flee. When sorely pressed they often defend themselves with a spray of stinking musk. They fight only as a last resort, lashing out with their large claws and serrated tails.

Armoured Ball (Ex): A pangolin can roll into a tight ball as a move action. A rolled-up pangolin loses its dexterity modifier to AC and can take no action apart from Shivering Scales (see below), but gains a +3 circumstance bonus to its Natural Armour, Damage Reduction and the DC of its Shivering Scales special attack, thus increasing its defences to DC15 Shivering Scales, AC17 (touch 11, flat-footed 17) and DR 5/–.

A pangolin in an armoured ball is immune to critical attacks. It can unroll into a standing position with a standard action.

An attacker can forcibly unroll a pangolin with a grapple check, but the pangolin receives a +12 racial bonus on its grapple check to resist, and the attacker must continue making grapple checks each round or the pangolin can roll itself back up.

Rock-Hard Claws (Ex): A pangolin's claw attacks ignore hardness of up to 5, allowing them to easily claw through termite mounds and wood to find insects.

Shivering Scales (Ex): A pangolin can use a standard action to vibrate its scales to try cutting attackers with their sharp edges. Any opponent that grapples the pangolin or hits it with a natural weapon attack before the pangolin's next turn must make a Reflex save against a DC12 or take 1d3 damage plus half the attacker's Strength bonus (maximum +5). If the pangolin is rolled into an Armoured Ball, the DC is 15. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Example: a leopard hits a rolled-up pangolin with its 1d6+3 damage bite attack. If it fails the DC15 Reflex save it takes 1d3+1 damage. The pangolin only takes 1d6-2 damage, due to its Armoured Ball Damage Reduction of 5.

Stink-Spray (Ex): Once an hour, a pangolin can spray a 10 foot line of reeking musk. Any living creature it touches must succeed on a DC 12 Fortitude save or be sickened for 1d6+4 rounds. A delay poison or neutralize poison spell removes the effect from a sickened creature. Creatures with immunity to poison are unaffected, and creatures resistant to poison receive their normal bonus on their saving throws. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Skills
Pangolins have a +2 racial bonus on Hide and Listen checks, plus a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent. A pangolin has a +4 racial bonus to Climb and Swim checks, and can use either its Dexterity or its Strength bonus on Climb checks.
 
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Cleon

Legend
Tree Pangolin

Pangolin, Tree
Tiny Animal
Hit Dice: ½d8+2 (4 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 10 ft.
Armour Class: 16 (+2 size, +2 Dex, +2 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/–10 [+5 to resist unrolling]
Attack: Claws +4 melee (1d4-2)
Full Attack: Claws +4 melee (1d4-2)
Space/Reach: 2½ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Rock-hard claws, shivering scales, stink-spray
Special Qualities: Armoured ball, DR 1/–, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +1
Abilities: Str 6, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 6
Skills: Climb +12, Hide +12, Listen +3, Survival +2* [+6 tracking by scent], Swim +5
Feats: Athletic, Track(B), Weapon Finesse(B)
Environment: Warm forests
Organization: Solitary or Family (2-8)
Challenge Rating: 1/4
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement:
Level Adjustment:

A slim, cat-sized animal entirely covered with horny scales that give it the appearance of a stretched-out pine -cone. It has a long flat tail and four short but sturdy legs, the forelegs end in large curved claws. The animal's head is almost all elongated, tapering snout, which ends in a tiny mouth.

A tree pangolin is an arboreal, nocturnal insectivore. These nocturnal creatures use their keen sense of smell to find insects on or within trees, they often use their powerful claws to strip of bark or break open dead wood to reach their food. A tree pangolin has a long sticky tongue for lapping up insects.

Like regular pangolins (q.v.), tree pangolins can prop themselves up on their hind legs with their tails and knuckle-walk on the ground, although they would much rather climb trees. They have prehensile tails strong enough for them to hang by while bearing the weight of another creature their size, while their claws make great climbing-hooks and can close on narrow branches with a vice-like grip – all handy adaptations for climbing.

An average tree pangolin is only 18 inches long, about half of which is tail, and weighs about 4 pounds.

Combat
Tree Pangolins only fight if cornered, slashing with their long claws. They would much rather climb away from threats, or roll into an armoured ball. If sore pressed a tree pangolin can emit a spray of noxious fluid whose reek is enough to repel most of its natural predators.

Armoured Ball (Ex): A tree pangolin can roll into a tight ball as a move action. A rolled-up tree pangolin loses its dexterity modifier to AC and can take no action apart from Shivering Scales (see below), but gains a +2 circumstance bonus to its Natural Armour Damage Reduction and the DC of its Shivering Scales special attack, thus changing its defences to DC14 Shivering Scales, AC16 (touch 12, flat-footed 16) and DR 3/–.
The tree pangolin can unroll itself into an upright position with a standard action.

Whenever a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on a tree pangolin rolled into an Armoured Ball, there is a 25% chance that the special attack is negated and its damage is rolled normally.

An attacker can forcibly unroll a pangolin with a grapple check, but the tree pangolin receives a +15 racial bonus on its grapple check to resist, and the attacker must continue making grapple checks each round or the pangolin can roll itself back up.

Rock-Hard Claws (Ex): A tree pangolin's claws attack ignores hardness of up to 5, allowing them to easily claw through bark and wood to find insects.

Shivering Scales (Ex): A tree pangolin can use a standard action to vibrate its scales to try cutting attackers with their sharp edges. Any opponent that grapples the pangolin or hits it with a natural weapon attack before the pangolin's next turn must make a Reflex save against a DC12 or take 1d3 damage plus half the attacker's Strength bonus (maximum +3). If the pangolin is rolled into an Armoured Ball, the DC is 15. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Example: a leopard hits a rolled-up tree pangolin with its 1d6+3 damage bite attack. If it fails the DC15 Reflex save it takes 1d3+1 damage. The pangolin only takes 1d6 damage, due to its Armoured Ball Damage Reduction of 3.

Stink-Spray (Ex): Once an hour, a pangolin can spray a 10 foot line of reeking musk. Any living creature it touches must succeed on a DC 12 Fortitude save or be sickened for 1d6+4 rounds. A delay poison or neutralize poison spell removes the effect from a sickened creature. Creatures with immunity to poison are unaffected, and creatures resistant to poison receive their normal bonus on their saving throws. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Skills
Pangolins have a +2 racial bonus on Hide and Listen checks, a +4 racial bonus on Swim checks, plus an +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent. A tree pangolin has a +8 racial bonus to Climb and can use either its Dexterity or its Strength bonus on Climb checks, it can always opt to take 10 on Climb checks, even when rushed or threatened.

Tree Pangolin Familiars
A tree pangolin can be used as a familiar. Such tree pangolins lose their Stink-Spray special attack (unless acquired with the Improved Familiar feat as detailed below) and give their master +3 hit points, together with a taste for ants.

A spellcaster of Neutral alignment of at least 5th level can use the Improved Familiar feat to acquire a tree pangolin familiar that retains its Stink-Spray attack which also gifts its master with a +1 natural armour bonus whenever it is within arm's reach.


Pangolin, Eomanis
Eomanis is a prehistoric animal, probably an early ancestor of the pangolins. It resembles a tree pangolin in size and shape, except its scaly armour is less developed, and does not properly cover its limbs and underbelly.

Use the same stats as a pangolin, except Eomanis only has a +1 natural armour bonus and a +2 cap on its Shivering Scales damage bonus, and when it
rolls in an Armoured Ball the animal only gains a +1 circumstance bonus to its Damage Reduction and Shivering Scales, changing its defences to:

Armour Class: AC 15 (+2 size, +2 Dex, +1 natural), touch
Armoured Ball: DC13 Shivering Scales, AC15 (touch 12, flat-footed 15) and DR 2/–.
Shivering Scales: DC12, maximum damage 1d3+2.
 
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