Converting real world styles
- Thread starter Tobithus
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Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
I'd start by giving them all Improved Unarmed Strike... 
But seriously - how were you looking at implementing them? As Prestige Classes? Feat Chains? Some add-on mechanic not in the Core Rules?
-Hyp.
But seriously - how were you looking at implementing them? As Prestige Classes? Feat Chains? Some add-on mechanic not in the Core Rules?
-Hyp.
It depends on your goals and interpretation of the real world styles. A kickboxing style may involve improved grapple/grab, where a punch could turn into a grab, and lead to repeated knee strikes against a standing opponent (grappling damage). If you go with Capoeira, the brazilian fighting art, you may invest in tumbling ranks, prone attack, and skill mastery with tumbling (just let a fighter or monk take it at high levels as a feat with the right number of skill ranks as a prerequisite) for an AC bonus, to demonstrate the acrobatic qualities of the art. Just check out the recent tekken games for an example.
You could use certain skills and strategies in combat to illustrate your approach to fighting styles, or even design a five level prestige class. The improved unarmed strike feat/level of monk is a good way to start for any unarmed combatant, in any case. OA has some concepts too- beyond that, you're getting into house rules territory.
You could use certain skills and strategies in combat to illustrate your approach to fighting styles, or even design a five level prestige class. The improved unarmed strike feat/level of monk is a good way to start for any unarmed combatant, in any case. OA has some concepts too- beyond that, you're getting into house rules territory.
The problem with Real World styles is that they are not viable vs an opponent that knows how to use a weapon. You can make them cinematic if you want, but some of them arent that cinematic (Im training Thai boxing myself, and it isnt more exiting then your average boxing match).
Shinsetsu explained this quite well.
Just as he said, if you want to add any in-game bonuses for learning specific styles, you're making up house rules... however, it would be a lot of work to make up 'accurate' prestige classes and rules for new martial arts styles. You could look at the Drunken Master PrC in Sword and Fist for a start, but I personally dislike that prestige class - it's pretty wacky and brings up all sorts of weird rules questions in-play. It's also fiendishly stereotypical, which often offends martial arts purists.
One easy solution (which wouldn't take all that much work) might be to write up a few new 'feats' which would represent mastery (or at least significant ability) in a specific martial art - the feat would provide a few minor bonuses that would reflect the *cinematic* benefits/specialties of the martial art in question, basically, make enough of a difference to let the player feel like his/her character has learned something special. Full-blown prestige classes would require you to do a great deal of research, since movies and games are nice for inspiration but often do not strive to be accurate.
Accuracy would be difficult to ensure - certainly, most martial arts are at a disadvantage against an armed opponent - if this were not true, most martial arts would not bother with instruction in the use of weapons, but wushu, karate, penjak silat, escrima, etc. all make a point of using weapons when available. (I know some grappling-centered martial artists who can get pretty macho about their ability to deal with their opponents. "If I need to, I can just suck up one of your kicks or punches, and then I can move in and pin you." I usually shrug and say "Well, if you can suck up a sword strike and still pin me, then you deserve to win.")
So I say, don't worry about accuracy - a single feat, summing up the best cinematic advantage of the martial art in question, would be sufficient for play. The feat could have prerequisites that reflect the basic training/foundation of a style, demonstrating the character's previous devotion and study to the martial art, and then the feat finishes up the bonuses.
Here's a few possible examples: (PS: I only practice a few martial arts myself, and I wouldn't necessarily call myself an expert in any of them - so anyone who wants to nail me to the wall for 'butchering' the representation is more than welcome to offer criticism.) I've tried to make them useful and desirable, without being off-the-wall. The prerequisites also (hopefully) keep these from being no-brainer choices, making them something of a commitment to character flavor.
Feat: Karate
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Proficiency in Staff, Nunchaku, Kama, or Tonfa (stats same as Nunchaku)
Description: You have attained significant skill in a traditional hard style of martial arts. You gain an additional +1 to damage with your unarmed strikes, as well as with one of the weapons listed in the feat prerequisites.
Feat: Muay Thai
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike, Toughness
Description: This martial art style emphasizes powerful strikes, close-quarter combat, and the ability to withstand and endure pain. The body is conditioned to give and take, in a brutal and very effective way. You gain Damage Resistance 2 against unarmed attacks and subdual damage. You also get a +2 to your saving throws against any effects which rely on pain, such as Pain Touch, Symbol of Pain, etc.
Feat: Judo
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Trip, 5 ranks in Tumble, 5 ranks in Escape Artist
Description: This martial art specializes in close-quarter combat, spending less time on striking techniques and more time on pins and grapples, within the effective range of most other martial arts. You gain a +1 to touch attacks and grapple checks, and a +1 competence bonus to opposed Str/Dex checks when Tripping an opponent, or when he/she is attempting to Trip you.
Feat: Tae Kwon Do
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Circle Kick, Dodge, 5 ranks in Jump
Description: Relying on fast and powerful kicks, this style also includes a number of flashy aerial techniques. What is sometimes forgotten by the layman is this style's emphasis on footwork and strategy. You can use Circle Kick when executing a Standard Attack (the original feat requires the use of a full-round action). Your Dodge feat is also upgraded, giving you a +2 dodge bonus to AC instead of a +1.
Feat: Twin Jian
Prerequisites: Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse: Jian, Weapon Focus: Jian (longsword or rapier, depending on era and taste)
Description: You have spent a lot of time learning a difficult double sword style. Your penalties for two-weapon combat are reduced by one. (i.e. you have -3/-7 to hit (primary/off-hand) instead of the usual -4/-8 to hit, for using two medium-size weapons. Ambidexterity would change the penalties to -3/-3 (primary/off-hand))
Just as he said, if you want to add any in-game bonuses for learning specific styles, you're making up house rules... however, it would be a lot of work to make up 'accurate' prestige classes and rules for new martial arts styles. You could look at the Drunken Master PrC in Sword and Fist for a start, but I personally dislike that prestige class - it's pretty wacky and brings up all sorts of weird rules questions in-play. It's also fiendishly stereotypical, which often offends martial arts purists.
One easy solution (which wouldn't take all that much work) might be to write up a few new 'feats' which would represent mastery (or at least significant ability) in a specific martial art - the feat would provide a few minor bonuses that would reflect the *cinematic* benefits/specialties of the martial art in question, basically, make enough of a difference to let the player feel like his/her character has learned something special. Full-blown prestige classes would require you to do a great deal of research, since movies and games are nice for inspiration but often do not strive to be accurate.
Accuracy would be difficult to ensure - certainly, most martial arts are at a disadvantage against an armed opponent - if this were not true, most martial arts would not bother with instruction in the use of weapons, but wushu, karate, penjak silat, escrima, etc. all make a point of using weapons when available. (I know some grappling-centered martial artists who can get pretty macho about their ability to deal with their opponents. "If I need to, I can just suck up one of your kicks or punches, and then I can move in and pin you." I usually shrug and say "Well, if you can suck up a sword strike and still pin me, then you deserve to win.")
So I say, don't worry about accuracy - a single feat, summing up the best cinematic advantage of the martial art in question, would be sufficient for play. The feat could have prerequisites that reflect the basic training/foundation of a style, demonstrating the character's previous devotion and study to the martial art, and then the feat finishes up the bonuses.
Here's a few possible examples: (PS: I only practice a few martial arts myself, and I wouldn't necessarily call myself an expert in any of them - so anyone who wants to nail me to the wall for 'butchering' the representation is more than welcome to offer criticism.) I've tried to make them useful and desirable, without being off-the-wall. The prerequisites also (hopefully) keep these from being no-brainer choices, making them something of a commitment to character flavor.
Feat: Karate
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Proficiency in Staff, Nunchaku, Kama, or Tonfa (stats same as Nunchaku)
Description: You have attained significant skill in a traditional hard style of martial arts. You gain an additional +1 to damage with your unarmed strikes, as well as with one of the weapons listed in the feat prerequisites.
Feat: Muay Thai
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike, Toughness
Description: This martial art style emphasizes powerful strikes, close-quarter combat, and the ability to withstand and endure pain. The body is conditioned to give and take, in a brutal and very effective way. You gain Damage Resistance 2 against unarmed attacks and subdual damage. You also get a +2 to your saving throws against any effects which rely on pain, such as Pain Touch, Symbol of Pain, etc.
Feat: Judo
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Trip, 5 ranks in Tumble, 5 ranks in Escape Artist
Description: This martial art specializes in close-quarter combat, spending less time on striking techniques and more time on pins and grapples, within the effective range of most other martial arts. You gain a +1 to touch attacks and grapple checks, and a +1 competence bonus to opposed Str/Dex checks when Tripping an opponent, or when he/she is attempting to Trip you.
Feat: Tae Kwon Do
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Circle Kick, Dodge, 5 ranks in Jump
Description: Relying on fast and powerful kicks, this style also includes a number of flashy aerial techniques. What is sometimes forgotten by the layman is this style's emphasis on footwork and strategy. You can use Circle Kick when executing a Standard Attack (the original feat requires the use of a full-round action). Your Dodge feat is also upgraded, giving you a +2 dodge bonus to AC instead of a +1.
Feat: Twin Jian
Prerequisites: Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse: Jian, Weapon Focus: Jian (longsword or rapier, depending on era and taste)
Description: You have spent a lot of time learning a difficult double sword style. Your penalties for two-weapon combat are reduced by one. (i.e. you have -3/-7 to hit (primary/off-hand) instead of the usual -4/-8 to hit, for using two medium-size weapons. Ambidexterity would change the penalties to -3/-3 (primary/off-hand))
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Hey, nice.
I know very little about Twin Jian (or any armed style), but the rest capture "flavour" rather well - without being too complicated.
Despite the fact that about 80% of my group are heavily involved in Taekwon-do, there's not really any martial arts in my campaign (apart from a standard PHB monk)... but if that should ever change, I'll remember these
-Hyp.
My attempt at a conversion
Thanks for the examples.
How does this conversion sound?
"Dance Combat" (with apologies to Marcus)
A calisthenics, dance and combat system based on Australian animal forms
"Green Sea Turtle Stance" The hands of the practitioner become as the flippers of a Green Sea Turtle, pushing along and out, palms outwards. The practitioner huddles down, head tucked slightly. Headbutts, knees, grabs, elbows and holdbreakers etc. are employed. This is a largely defensive stance.
"Emu Stance"
The practitioner shuffles side to side, shaking themselves as an Emu does. Punches and kicks are mainly employed, striking the opponent from a distance. Example: Shuffle, punch, kick, shuffle.
Snake Stance:
The practitioner cocks the wrist of their hand and twists their body, striking with their hand at the face, groin etc of the opponent. Elbows are also employed in this stance, as are kicks and punches.
Skill Focus on one particular stance brings the following benefits
Green Sea Turtle:
AC improved by 2 per slot spent
Grapple +1 per slot spent
Recommended complementary Feats: Toughness
Emu
+1 to punching and kicking attacks
+1 Dodging
Recommended Feats:
Dodging, Evasion.
Snake:
+1 to called shots on specific areas of the body
+1 to initiative when attacking
Can strike twice a round as a partial action, then complete round.
Thanks for the examples.
How does this conversion sound?
"Dance Combat" (with apologies to Marcus)
A calisthenics, dance and combat system based on Australian animal forms
"Green Sea Turtle Stance" The hands of the practitioner become as the flippers of a Green Sea Turtle, pushing along and out, palms outwards. The practitioner huddles down, head tucked slightly. Headbutts, knees, grabs, elbows and holdbreakers etc. are employed. This is a largely defensive stance.
"Emu Stance"
The practitioner shuffles side to side, shaking themselves as an Emu does. Punches and kicks are mainly employed, striking the opponent from a distance. Example: Shuffle, punch, kick, shuffle.
Snake Stance:
The practitioner cocks the wrist of their hand and twists their body, striking with their hand at the face, groin etc of the opponent. Elbows are also employed in this stance, as are kicks and punches.
Skill Focus on one particular stance brings the following benefits
Green Sea Turtle:
AC improved by 2 per slot spent
Grapple +1 per slot spent
Recommended complementary Feats: Toughness
Emu
+1 to punching and kicking attacks
+1 Dodging
Recommended Feats:
Dodging, Evasion.
Snake:
+1 to called shots on specific areas of the body
+1 to initiative when attacking
Can strike twice a round as a partial action, then complete round.
Avatar of the North
First Post
If you have Oriental Adventures how about you look at how they did style mastery before continueing to develop things in this thread
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Re: My attempt at a conversion
If you're going to make it a feat, just make it an "Emu Stance" feat, not a Skill Focus. Skill Focus gives a bonus to skill checks.
And make sure there are prerequisites.
Yikes! A stackable +2 to AC from a repeatable feat? That makes Dodge and Expertise kinda redundant, doesn't it?
If Dodge and Unarmed Strike, at least, are prerequisites, this one seems okay. Call it "+1 to all attack rolls with unarmed strike" for consistency, though.
Evasion is a class feature, not a feat.
Called shots don't exist in the Core Rules, so I can't comment on that.
And allowing multiple attacks with partial actions is generally considered a Bad Idea.
-Hyp.
If you're going to make it a feat, just make it an "Emu Stance" feat, not a Skill Focus. Skill Focus gives a bonus to skill checks.
And make sure there are prerequisites.
Yikes! A stackable +2 to AC from a repeatable feat? That makes Dodge and Expertise kinda redundant, doesn't it?
If Dodge and Unarmed Strike, at least, are prerequisites, this one seems okay. Call it "+1 to all attack rolls with unarmed strike" for consistency, though.
Evasion is a class feature, not a feat.
Called shots don't exist in the Core Rules, so I can't comment on that.
And allowing multiple attacks with partial actions is generally considered a Bad Idea.
-Hyp.
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