Converting True Dragons

[Cleon]

I was considering it, until you shot it down upthread.

I reserve the right to disagree with myself...

...no I don't! ... yes I do!, and I just demonstrated it! ... aw, shucks...

*Ahem*

True dragons normally don't gain tail slap attacks until Young adult age category. This could prove problematic for this type of dragon.

I suggest we note that its bite attacks are treated as if it were one size category smaller, and that it gains a tail slap attack immediately. Since damage progression for tail slaps is identical to claws, we can just say that Medium or smaller bestiary dragons deal damage with their tail slaps equal to their claws. Does that sound good?

Starting the tail-slap early does make sense. It might be necessary to up the tail damage though, since these dragons lack claw attacks.

How about just having its tail do the same damage as a regular dragon's bite? (e.g. a Large Bestiary dragon has a 2d6 tail-slap and a 1d8 bite.)

Do we give them tail-sweep and wing attacks when they get large enough?

 

[Shade]

Alright, swallow whole is back!

Starting the tail-slap early does make sense. It might be necessary to up the tail damage though, since these dragons lack claw attacks.

How about just having its tail do the same damage as a regular dragon's bite? (e.g. a Large Bestiary dragon has a 2d6 tail-slap and a 1d8 bite.)

That works for me.

Do we give them tail-sweep and wing attacks when they get large enough?

Absolutely!

Updated.

Are we finished?

 

[freyar]

Seems good enough!

 

[Cleon]

Seems good enough!

Why has it suddenly got a Swim speed?

The AD&D original had a Jump speed listed, but not a swim.

I suspect it's a copy-and-paste holdover from the SRD Black Dragon.

Hmm, that Jump speed suggests we could give it a +8 racial bonus to Jump. That would give a Wyrmling Bestiary Dragon a +20 Jump modifier when its speed bonus is included, so it can Jump 30 feet on a "take 10", which would match the original's "Jp 3".

Add "A bestiary dragon has a +8 racial bonus on Jump checks and can always take 10 on Jump checks, even when rushed or threatened." to the skills?

I'd drop the Swim speed though, since I think it's a poor fit to this version's fiery nature.

Also, we were going to give it Hover as a bonus feat, and I can't see that anywhere in the current right-up.

 

[Shade]

I left the swim speed in since most snakes have a swim speed.
I'm not opposed to dropping it, though.

I'm fine with adding the racial bonus on Jump, but the "always take 10" feels extranneous.

At which age category should the bonus Hover feat be granted?

 

[freyar]

Let's drop the Swim speed, but, since it's always hanging out in trees, add a 10ft Climb speed at all ages.

+8 to Jump is ok, but let's not do the take 10.

Add Hover either at juvenile or young adult?

 

[Shade]

Agreed to that, and let's go with juvenile for Hover.

I also changed Swim to Jump on the class skills line.

Updated.

Finished now?

 

[Cleon]

Agreed to that, and let's go with juvenile for Hover.

I also changed Swim to Jump on the class skills line.

Updated.

Finished now?

My original thought was giving it Hover from the Wyrmling stage, but having it gain it after Thermal Riding does make more sense.

A Climb speed of 10 ft. seems too slow. Most snakes have Climb 20 ft., the same as their ground speed.

I'd prefer a Climb of 20 or 30 ft., I don't mind which.

Oh, and it'll also get Climb as a class skill.

Apart from the Climbing quibble I think we're done with it.

EDIT: Oh, I just noticed something. Shouldn't its Swallow Whole internal AC be "10 plus half its natural armor bonus" rather than a flat 15?

 

[freyar]

Climb 20 or 30 is ok.

Climb instead of Jump in class skills is fine, too.

And Cleon's right on the gizzard AC.

 

[Shade]

EDIT: Oh, I just noticed something. Shouldn't its Swallow Whole internal AC be "10 plus half its natural armor bonus" rather than a flat 15?

Indeed, that is technically accurate. Oddly, the sea serpents (which have variable natural armor at different age categories) used the flat amount. Still, let's go with the norm and make it "10 plus half its natural armor bonus".

Updated. Finished now?