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Converting World of Greyhawk monsters

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Shade

Monster Junkie
Mortis said:
I'd favour minotaur for physical and centaur for mental abilities, but given as it has over double the HD of either of those maybe we could up the stats a bit to give something along the lines of:

Str 22, Dex 12, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 12
Natural Armor: +6
Just for the heck of it, taking a bull (bison stats) and minotaur and using the tauric creature template would result in the following:

Str 22, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 8
Natural Armor: +5

Since the manotaur was intended to be smarter than the minotaur, and seems physically more powerful than the two combined, the higher ability scores you suggested make sense.

Let's revisit feats after we hammer out its attacks and special abilities.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I like the higher ability scores, as well.

Powerful charge looks pretty good, though we need to add that it knocks the victim down and back.
 

Echohawk

Shirokinukatsukami fan
Shade said:
Interesting...how similar is it?
Now that I compare them, they are the same creature; exactly the same AC, HD, Attacks, Special Attacks, etc. The version in CB1 has very little description text, but two thirds of what it doesn't have is repeated in the MCA3, with only minor changes. And the other third has been rewritten, but with largely the same meaning. I would scan it for you, but a colony of "Ants, Small Annoying" seems to have taken up residence inside my scanner sometime earlier this week, with dire consequences :(
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
I added to Homebrews based on the ability scores Mortis recommended.

freyar said:
Powerful charge looks pretty good, though we need to add that it knocks the victim down and back.
Hmmm...it sounds like Powerful Charge, Improved Bull Rush and Improved Overrun all rolled into one. I'll look through other creatures and see if one has a similar ability.
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
Echohawk said:
Now that I compare them, they are the same creature; exactly the same AC, HD, Attacks, Special Attacks, etc. The version in CB1 has very little description text, but two thirds of what it doesn't have is repeated in the MCA3, with only minor changes. And the other third has been rewritten, but with largely the same meaning. I would scan it for you, but a colony of "Ants, Small Annoying" seems to have taken up residence inside my scanner sometime earlier this week, with dire consequences :(
No problem. So basically, it has very little different worth noting, eh?
 


Mortis

First Post
freyar said:
Powerful charge looks pretty good, though we need to add that it knocks the victim down and back.
Wouldn't it make more sense to knock a victim down and then trample it rather than knocking it back?

Regards
Mortis
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
I think this text from the Driving Attack feat in the PHBII is fairly close to the original intent:

If you use a full-round action to make a single melee attack with any piercing weapon and succeed in hitting, you can initiate a special bull rush attempt against the target. The bull rush uses your total bonus on damage rolls in place of your Strength modifier. You do not provoke an attack of opportunity with this bull rush, and you cannot move forward with your opponent.

If you succeed in pushing an opponent back 10 feet or more, you can reduce the distance you push him by 10 feet. In return, your foe falls prone in the square when he ends his movement. Note that by reducing the distance you push your opponent, you can have him fall prone in his current space.
 


Mortis

First Post
Shade said:
I think this text from the Driving Attack feat in the PHBII is fairly close to the original intent:
There was bound to be something in one book or another :)

Driving Attack looks like it does the job, so something similar as a special ability then?

Regards
Mortis
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
How's this?

Devastating Charge (Ex): A manotaur typically begins a battle by charging at an opponent, lowering its head to bring its mighty horns into play. In addition to the normal benefits and hazards of a charge, this allows the beast to make a single gore attack with a +x attack bonus that deals X+X points of damage.

Additionally, if the manotaur succeeds on its attack, it can initiate a special bull rush attempt against the target. The bull rush uses its total bonus on damage rolls in place of its Strength modifier. The manotaur does not provoke an attack of opportunity with this bull rush, and cannot move forward with its opponent.

If the manotaur succeeds in pushing an opponent back 10 feet or more, it can reduce the distance pushed by 10 feet. In return, the foe falls prone in the square when he ends his movement. Note that by reducing the distance it pushes its opponent, the manotaur can have him fall prone in his current space.
 

Mortis

First Post
Shade said:
How's this?

Devastating Charge (Ex): A manotaur typically begins a battle by charging at an opponent, lowering its head to bring its mighty horns into play. In addition to the normal benefits and hazards of a charge, this allows the beast to make a single gore attack with a +x attack bonus that deals X+X points of damage.

Additionally, if the manotaur succeeds on its attack, it can initiate a special bull rush attempt against the target. The bull rush uses its total bonus on damage rolls in place of its Strength modifier. The manotaur does not provoke an attack of opportunity with this bull rush, and cannot move forward with its opponent.

If the manotaur succeeds in pushing an opponent back 10 feet or more, it can reduce the distance pushed by 10 feet. In return, the foe falls prone in the square when he ends his movement. Note that by reducing the distance it pushes its opponent, the manotaur can have him fall prone in his current space.
Looks good - it's beginning to remind me of a Tactical feat. :)

Regards
Mortis
 


freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Mortis said:
Looks good - it's beginning to remind me of a Tactical feat. :)
Do you mean overpowered compared to a core feat? :eek: But I agree that it looks good for these guys.
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
A manotaur usually speaks its own language, as well as minotaur, ogre, and hill giant.
Since all the other creatures mentioned speak Giant, shall we stick with that as its sole language?

Because of its superior senses of smell and hearing, a manotaur is surprised only on a 1 in 10 chnce. Since manotaurs run with absolute silence through their woodland lairs, opponent surprise rolls are at a -3 penalty. A manotaur will typically charge if it surprises an opponent.
Alertness was suggested earlier. Minotaurs have a +4 racial bonus on Search, Spot, and Listen checks. Shall we retain that? Perhaps a bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks in forest terrain?

Manotaurs are intelligent opponents that rely upon brute force when battling smaller creatures and guile against well-armed foes. A common ploy by manotaurs is to surprise the opponent, deliver a single charge attack, then disappear into the forest. A manotaur repeats this tactic time and again, slowly wearing down the foe before closing for the kill.
Power Attack and Spring Attack?

Habitat/Society: Manotaurs are evil by nature, hating all good things. Their lairs are usually overgrown, desolate forests, in which they gallop to and fro, beating out a series of twisted interlocking paths with their hooves. These paths are known only to the manotaur who lives there: Any creature attempting to follow the paths in a manotaur forest is 75% likely to become disoriented and unable to find its way back out of the forest. A person trapped in a manotaur forest has only a 10% chance per day of finding his way out without magical aid. At seemingly random points, the forest's paths straighten out for as much as 30 feet at a time. This is where the manotaur will wait, timing his charge to hit just as the victim rounds the bend and steps onto the straightened path.
Hmmm...some variation of the maze spell?

Should we use this (or modify it)?

Natural Cunning (Ex): Although minotaurs are not especially intelligent, they possess innate cunning and logical ability. This gives them immunity to maze spells, prevents them from ever becoming lost, and enables them to track enemies. Further, they are never caught flat-footed.

The personalities of manotaurs vary widely; some guard their forest jealously, killing all who dare enter. Others fill the woodland with wicked creatures, such as giant spiders, orcs, and even an occasional ogre or two. They use these creatures to spread terror through the forest and as spies in the outside world.

A manotaur colt is born with 2 Hit Dice. The colt remains with its father until it reaches 5 Hit Dice. At that point it is driven out of the forest. A manotaur colt that reenters its father's forest is immediately slain.

Ecology: Manotaurs hunt sylvan creatures (brownies, sprites, elves, and the like). They hate unicorns and can sense them anywhere in their forests. The only time two manotaurs will cooperate is to track down and destroy a unicorn.
Eh?

Organization: Solitary, pair (manotaur and noncombatant colt), unicorn-hunting party (2), wickedness (manotaur plus 1-2 ogres, X Large monstrous spiders, and X orcs)
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Shade said:
Since all the other creatures mentioned speak Giant, shall we stick with that as its sole language?
Sure.

Alertness was suggested earlier. Minotaurs have a +4 racial bonus on Search, Spot, and Listen checks. Shall we retain that? Perhaps a bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks in forest terrain?
Let's drop Alertness and go with the racial bonus like the minotaur. The Hide and Move Silently bonuses are ok too.

Power Attack and Spring Attack?
Makes sense.

Hmmm...some variation of the maze spell?

Should we use this (or modify it)?

Natural Cunning (Ex): Although minotaurs are not especially intelligent, they possess innate cunning and logical ability. This gives them immunity to maze spells, prevents them from ever becoming lost, and enables them to track enemies. Further, they are never caught flat-footed.
Essentially giving it maze as an SLA with some restriction to the area near its lair might work. I think Natural Cunning then makes a lot of sense, especially since manotaurs are definitely related to minotaurs.

Organization: Solitary, pair (manotaur and noncombatant colt), unicorn-hunting party (2), wickedness (manotaur plus 1-2 ogres, X Large monstrous spiders, and X orcs)
Looks pretty good. Maybe 1d4 spiders and 1d6 orcs?
 

Mortis

First Post
Shade said:
Since all the other creatures mentioned speak Giant, shall we stick with that as its sole language?
Yes
Shade said:
Alertness was suggested earlier. Minotaurs have a +4 racial bonus on Search, Spot, and Listen checks. Shall we retain that? Perhaps a bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks in forest terrain?
No problems with any of that.

source said:
A common ploy by manotaurs is to surprise the opponent, deliver a single charge attack, then disappear into the forest.
Shade said:
Power Attack and Spring Attack?
There's one problem with employing Spring Attack with a charge - you can't :)
Spring Attack is part of the attack action whereas a charge is special full round action so you can't combine the two AFAIK. :(

We would also have to give the manotaur Dodge and Mobility to qualify for Spring Attack unless we grant it as a bonus feat.

IMO Ride-by Attack works better as it works as part of the charge action. We would still have to make it a bonus feat as the manotaur will not meet the prereq's (ride 1 rank, mounted combat).

freyar said:
Essentially giving it maze as an SLA with some restriction to the area near its lair might work. I think Natural Cunning then makes a lot of sense, especially since manotaurs are definitely related to minotaurs.
Works for me.

freyar said:
Looks pretty good. Maybe 1d4 spiders and 1d6 orcs?
OK with me but i'd up the orcs to 2d6.

Regards
Mortis
 

Shade

Monster Junkie
Here's the text from the maze spell:

You banish the subject into an extradimensional labyrinth of force planes. Each round on its turn, it may attempt a DC 20 Intelligence check to escape the labyrinth as a full-round action. If the subject doesn’t escape, the maze disappears after 10 minutes, forcing the subject to leave.

On escaping or leaving the maze, the subject reappears where it had been when the maze spell was cast. If this location is filled with a solid object, the subject appears in the nearest open space. Spells and abilities that move a creature within a plane, such as teleport and dimension door, do not help a creature escape a maze spell, although a plane shift spell allows it to exit to whatever plane is designated in that spell. Minotaurs are not affected by this spell.
I think we should rewrite it so that rather than going to an extradimensional place, it occurs within the actual forest. In that case, perhaps teleport and dim door are acceptable?

We may be able to modify this ability to allow the manotaur to use the Ride-By Attack feat...

Cavalry Charge (Ex): An armanite is considered to be mounted for determining the effects of charge attacks with lances. An armanite gains a +4 bonus on attack rolls when charging with a lance and does not take a penalty to Armor Class as a result of its charge.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Shade said:
I think we should rewrite it so that rather than going to an extradimensional place, it occurs within the actual forest. In that case, perhaps teleport and dim door are acceptable?
Sounds good.

We may be able to modify this ability to allow the manotaur to use the Ride-By Attack feat...

Cavalry Charge (Ex): An armanite is considered to be mounted for determining the effects of charge attacks with lances. An armanite gains a +4 bonus on attack rolls when charging with a lance and does not take a penalty to Armor Class as a result of its charge.
Why not just add that a manotaur is considered mounted when making its devastating charge (along these lines)? Or something like

Naturally Mounted (Ex): A manotaur is considered to have X ranks in the Ride skill and to have the Mounted Combat feat (and others?) for the purposes of determining feat prerequisites.
 

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