convince my players EoM is balanced

[Tumbler]

Ok, I'm 5 sessions into a campaign mixing EoM with standard magic. We began at 10th level and are now 11th. The fluff is that fey and elves use EoM and other races generally use standard magic.

In the party, I have a human sorceror, a human druid, and a dwarven favored soul on the traditional side and an elven taskmage and an elven mageknight/mage on the EoM side. I've won over the players of the druid and sorceror, but the favored soul is adamant that the system is unbalanced and he is gradually winning over the mageknight to the point that he is considering creating a new character. The players are willing to accept "I'm the DM and we are experimenting with this." But I really want to win them over. 3 of the players are engineers or otherwise math savvy folks, and I'm not.

So far they have had particular difficulty with being able to cast buff spells on several individuals or for long time periods and with the range of heal spells and also the versatility of the system. I've statted up the spells the sorceror uses and shown that they are all much higher level in EoM, but I'm not making much progress with their opinions.

 

[Thomas5251212]

Well, honestly, I'm not particularly convinced it _is_ balanced in conjunction with regular D&D magic; being good in different places and bad in others doesn't necessarily mean balance. In particular while I don't think the strength of EoM in buffs and teleport magic is a great evil, it tends to be in an area that has more overall impact I think than its weakness in attack spells and some other areas.

 

[DonTadow]

Well, honestly, I'm not particularly convinced it _is_ balanced in conjunction with regular D&D magic; being good in different places and bad in others doesn't necessarily mean balance. In particular while I don't think the strength of EoM in buffs and teleport magic is a great evil, it tends to be in an area that has more overall impact I think than its weakness in attack spells and some other areas.

Without a doubt, the buff spells are a bit over powered and can really be unbalanced at times. But, I don't consider that making the whole system unbalanced. I added a small rule (home rule) to the thing. As enchantments are ongoing effects, when a mage is hit while having an enchantment spell (or any ongoing effect), she must make a concentration check equal to the damage to maintain the enchantment. She may also not have any more than her level of enchantments going on at any one time.

I added this in when i saw how every mage class had some powerful enchantment spell that granted +5 for every combat stat. This also helped me combine the EOM and the Mythic book.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I think it is balanced with the Core system in a way.. you lose some power, but gain flexibility and some nasty non-direct damage powers.

I have been "experimenting" with mix games since I bought EoM.. and played characters at low, mid, and ludicrous levels...
Let me tell you, a 20th level EoM mage can lay some serious nastiness about!
I playing an 8th level EoM focused on Transform and Illusion just to see if I could keep up with a very munkiny group, without using Evoke or Heal lists. I had no problem and ended up being the most useful character in the group. I could not dish out the same amounts of damage as everybody else in a straight up slug-fest.. which is why I never got into one


However, balance is perceived through the lens of game styles. In some games the Bard is woefully underpowered.. yet in others he is one of the best choices of character to play. So to with magic systems. A game style that caters to inventive and spontaneous, non-direct damage style shortcuts will favor EoM. On teh other hand, a game were direct damage is the order of the day, EoM will appear weak.

So.. end result. You want your players to see EoM as being as powerful as Core? Set up scenarios where direct damage wont help as much. Have combats were casters actually spend the 2 rounds to craft a spell instead of relying on signature spells.

Good luck!

 

[Tumbler]

Thanks Primitive Screwhead, that helps a lot actually. I have deliberately set out in this campaign to create ecounters that didn't involve combat. The campaign launched with a massive explosion setting a small town on fire. Evoke Cold and summon water were very effective at putting out the flames. Of course, so was the druid spontaneously summoning water elementals, faster than the EOM mage. The biggest stinker for the party was when on of the characters range healed another who was pinned under a giant spider. Without the save, the pinned character would have died, but they can't get over the idea that you shouldn't be able to heal at a distance.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I remembered a good example from my current campaign, I have two druids.. one Core and one EoM side by side.

They were assualting a fort out in a swamp and had foolishly announced thier presence. The party almost came to the point of just leaving as they were stuck as to how to go about getting over the wall, then the EoM Druid remembered he had picked up Create Nature.. spent a couple rounds crafting a spell that grew an oaken and vine wrapped ramp leading up to the edge of the wall...

It was very cool. The player even gave the spell a good druidic description with chanting and blood-letting

 

[Verequus]

...but they can't get over the idea that you shouldn't be able to heal at a distance.

Actually, there are rules to allow range healing in the core system. The first would be the Specratl Hand spell, which allows also divine spells to be transferred (see FAQ). The second is a feat, which can convert touch spells into range attacks or something like that.

 

[Tumbler]

Actually, there are rules to allow range healing in the core system. The first would be the Specratl Hand spell, which allows also divine spells to be transferred (see FAQ).

Any page number for this? My PHB says spectral hand is a sor/wiz 2 spell, and I can't find anything in the FAQ that contradicts this.

 

[Verequus]

The FAQ only clarifies, that the touch spells can be also from divine origin, not that Spectral Hand is a divine spell. So you could allow to research a 3rd level divine Spectral Hand or you could use it with a Mystic Theurge, who has already enough arcane caster levels.