Cooperative, hybrid ability generation

[kaomera]

I'm currently looking ahead to the next campaign I will run, and I've been thinking about character creation a bit. I'm expecting to have largely the same group I'm currently DMing for, and I want to address a bit of an issue that has come up regarding the party. Specifically, while I brought the group together for a character creation session, and tried to get them working together, most of the players already had a very solid idea of what character they where going to be playing, and as a result there was little real cooperation or thought about party roles, etc.

I'm going to ask the players not to show up for the next character creation session with such specific ideas. I may even try to spring the session on them without prior notice, I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not. I plan to hand out 3 x 5 index cards for each player to write down any specific limits on what they'd be willing to play, and then work with the group so that each player at least knows what each other player is doing, and I don't want to start working with actual character sheets until that is done.

Having gotten those preliminaries out of the way, here is the system I'm currently thinking of using to generate ability scores:

1) Each player rolls two sets of ability scores; 3d6 six times in order (Str, Int, Wis, Dex, Con Cha).
2) Players may swap both their sets of ability scores with any other player, as desired.
3) Each player chooses one set of ability scores for their character.
4) Each player has 15 BP with which to customize their character's ability scores. Scores are increased as follows:

     Score        Cost
     3 - 7     1 BP per +2
     8 - 13    1 BP per +1
    14 - 15    2 BP per +1
    16 - 17    3 BP per +1
      18       (max value)

5) Racial modifiers, etc. are applied. Proceed with character creation.

I'm hoping this will create more dialog between the players, if only in terms of who gets what set of scores. Also it will possibly open some of the players up to different character concepts. If we need to generate a single character (or a pair), I'd have the player roll three sets of scores in step 1, since there wouldn't be the opportunity to swap with another player.

Thoughts? I'm thinking setting "n" (as in "roll + n") to 15 BP should result in characters that would be around 28 BP by normal points-buy. There should be the opportunity for most characters to have at least one "18" and/or two 16+ scores. I'm also expecting with the dynamics of the group that there will be some players who will want to swap for the highest total scores, others who will favor particular abilities, and those who will be willing to play whatever they get and are liable to swap away a "better" set of scores to make another player happy.

 

[Nifft]

OOoooo! The swapping idea has given me an evil thought.

Give each player a monopoly on a specific ability (or two) and make them trade with each other to get all ability scores.

So, if you have three players, each guy gets a 3x5 card with six numbers on it. One card is for Str & Con, one is for Int & Dex, and one is for Wis & Cha (for example).

The players must trade with each other to make a whole PC.

Throw in a few more tangible items -- one masterwork weapon, one MW armor or shield, some alchemical items, a potion or two -- and let the trading begin.

C, -- N

 

[kaomera]

OOoooo! The swapping idea has given me an evil thought.

Just wait until 4e, when the only officially-sanctioned method for creating ability scores will be to buy them in randomly-assorted packs!

 

[Nifft]

Just wait until 4e, when the only officially-sanctioned method for creating ability scores will be to buy them in randomly-assorted packs!

Wow. My evil thoughts look like fluffy bunnies in comparison.

Anyway -- your cooperative idea looks good. The 3d6 "in order" thing will probably result in a bunch of unplayable PCs, but the 15 point buy on top will probably be able to fix that, and the few good rolls will shine like the gems they are.

Cool idea! -- N

 

[Sadrik]

Hey this looks pretty cool and fun.

You could assign a bunch of score to either mental or physical. Making sure you have 3 x the number of players for both physical and mental.
Example: for 4 players the scores could be 7/8/9/10/10/11/11/12/12/13/14/15. Do this for both physical and mental. Write them on cards pass them out and let the players weal and deal. Then use your 15 points to balance them out.

Niffts idea to balance out the lower ones with extra gear is great . But what about bonus xp or a +1 LA for free. A free bonus feat etc. Taking a 7 physical and getting a +1 LA for it just might be worth it.

Good luck with it!

 

[el-remmen]

You should check out my stat draft rules. They allow for both cooperative and competetive character creation.

The original sample draft is here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=2753338#post2753338

And the process and results of the one I ran for my upcoming campaign are here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=180349&highlight=stat+draft

You can read over the rules separately on the aquerra.wiki: http://aquerra.wikispaces.com/Character Creation - Stat Draft

 

[kaomera]

First of all, thanx for all the encouragement!

The 3d6 "in order" thing will probably result in a bunch of unplayable PCs

BWUH??? :\

Actually, not "BWUH???", so much... But all of my favorite PCs where 3d6 "in order". I've grown to expect the idea that you "need" much higher ability scores to make a playable character, but I don't think I'll ever really grow accustomed to it...

You should check out my stat draft rules. They allow for both cooperative and competetive character creation.

I've actually looked at those, they seem pretty neat. I'd prefer a system with the players rolling dice, most of my players probably aren't invested in the idea as I am, but I'm old-school like that.

I actually tried a system involving card-draws at one point, but the players really didn't go for it and I relented back to 4d6. In retrospect that may have had more to do with basing it around a 25 BP average than anything else...

I previously had a version of this system I was toying with that would have based the number of BPs a character had to work with on the total bonus of the rolled scores, but that seemed like one more step than I really needed.

 

[Phlebas]

I'm old school too and like rolling, but several players (one in particular) are addicted to points buy so i came up with compromise

Roll character (4d6 ignore lowest, in order)
Work out points equiv
If point buy is less than 25 (or 28 or whatever you want to set it) allow players to increase stats to make up the difference to 25 PB
If its over 25, thats it.
[EDIT: you do this twice and then pick one - though if you're trading you could roll just once...]
In this scenario the only way i'd allow stats to be reduced (to give more points) was if you reduced the lowest stat. This meant that you had characters with, well, character.

In the trading system you could roll, and work out points available, and then trade before spending the spare. This would actually mean some of the worse rolls would be just as desirable as some of the better ones (more flexible builds). But not as good as the highest rolls (more points, no flexibility)

ps - I like this idea, and will probably use trading concept next time i start a campaign - should be fun!

 

[Ciaran]

I've actually looked at those, they seem pretty neat. I'd prefer a system with the players rolling dice, most of my players probably aren't invested in the idea as I am, but I'm old-school like that.

That's actually pretty easy. Instead of preparing the stats yourself, let the players roll the stats for the stat draft, then pick stats as per the draft rules.

 

[Nifft]

BWUH??? :\

Actually, not "BWUH???", so much... But all of my favorite PCs where 3d6 "in order". I've grown to expect the idea that you "need" much higher ability scores to make a playable character, but I don't think I'll ever really grow accustomed to it...

It's not just about being uber. It's also because in 3.5e there are a lot of ways to suffer ability damage and/or drain.

-- N