Cooperative Scribe scroll

[spity]

Can a cleric (1st level, without Scribe scroll feat) in cooperation with party wizard (1st lvl - scribe scroll as bonus feat ...) scribe a scroll of C.L.W.
Same question for wands (cleric w/o Craft Wand; wizard with Craft Wand), can they make a wand of, let's say, Cure Moderate Wounds ?

I know about cooperation when making magic items, like wondrous items and magic arms and armor, but these two puzzle me

 

[Krafen]

Yes, in both cases. I wouldn't treat it differently than creating any other magic item

 

[Hypersmurf]

Remember, though, that Caster Level, XP, and the arcane/divine nature of a scroll all come from 'the creator'.

If the Wizard spends the XP, the caster level of the scroll or wand cannot be higher than his caster level, and a scroll will be arcane. (This leads to a wizard and a cleric cooperating to produce a scroll of CLW that only a Bard can use.)

If the Cleric spends the XP, the caster level of the scroll or wand cannot be higher than his caster level, and a scroll will be divine.

-Hyp.

 

[Sithobi1]

"The Creator"? So God will expend XP for me?

 

[UltimaGabe]

Remember, though, that Caster Level, XP, and the arcane/divine nature of a scroll all come from 'the creator'.

If the Wizard spends the XP, the caster level of the scroll or wand cannot be higher than his caster level, and a scroll will be arcane. (This leads to a wizard and a cleric cooperating to produce a scroll of CLW that only a Bard can use.)

If the Cleric spends the XP, the caster level of the scroll or wand cannot be higher than his caster level, and a scroll will be divine.

-Hyp.

Just a little mention I thought I'd make sure everyone knew- the person with the item creation feat is the one who gives up the XP. So if the Wizard has Scribe Scroll and the Cleric doesn't, the Wizard is always going to be spending the XP, and said scroll is always going to be Arcane. If the Cleric has Scribe Scroll as well (as he should), then the Wizard wouldn't really be involved at all, as the Cleric would have all of the prerequisites himself, and he would give up any XP and the scroll would be Divine.

 

[Daedrova]

Just a couple of comments:

Sithobi1, I don’t know if others liked it, but that short quip made me laugh out loud, and I needed that. Thanks.

And this:

…(This leads to a wizard and a cleric cooperating to produce a scroll of CLW that only a Bard can use.)…
-Hyp.

is probably the most obtuse “rule” I have ever seen. There is no situation where this even remotely makes any amount of sense.

A cleric and a wizard walk up to a bard and hand him a scroll.
Bard- “what is this?”
Cleric- “A healing scroll.”
Bard- “uh, thanks. Wait… Why don’t you use it?
Cleric- “I cannot.”
Bard- “wha.. Why? Where did you get it?”
Wizard- “We made it.”
Bard- “Wait, who made it, you or the cleric?”
Wizard- “We both did”
Bard- “…but neither of you know how to use it?”
Wizard and Cleric- “Right.”
Bard- “… but you made it.”

And you can just imagine what would transpire from that point on.

God forbid that a Wizard ever learn healing magic, we had best make a completely absurd rule that will absolutely prevent that…

 

[Shin Okada]

So if the Wizard has Scribe Scroll and the Cleric doesn't, the Wizard is always going to be spending the XP, and said scroll is always going to be Arcane.

Is that true? I have been thinking that the spell it self determines whether it is Arcane or Divine. For example, if a cleric with scribe scroll creates a scroll of Fireball with an aid from fellow wizard, the resulted scroll is Arcane Scroll of Fireball, not Divine Scroll of Fireball. Thus, a wizard or a cleric with magic domain can use it.

If that is, as you said, a Divine Scroll of Fireball, almost no one can use it.

*Addition by edit

Also, if that is true, scrolls made by higher level Warlocks (with Imbue Item ability) are always arcane. And thus, if he makes a scroll of, say, Liveoak, the warlock himself cannot use it even with use magic item skill. No arcane class has Liveoak in it's class spell list. So he cannot mimic.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Just a little mention I thought I'd make sure everyone knew- the person with the item creation feat is the one who gives up the XP.

What makes you say that?

"It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.

If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator’s level must be known. The character designated as the creator pays the XP required to make the item."

Is that true? I have been thinking that the spell it self determines whether it is Arcane or Divine.

No.

"The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)"

Arcane or Divine is not determined by the spell, but by the class of the character who creates the scroll. An arcane caster who creates a scroll creates an arcane scroll, even if the spell is a divine spell supplied by another character or an item.

Also, if that is true, scrolls made by higher level Warlocks (with Imbue Item ability) are always arcane. And thus, if he makes a scroll of, say, Liveoak, the warlock himself cannot use it even with use magic item skill. No arcane class has Liveoak in it's class spell list. So he cannot mimic.

UMD doesn't let you mimic another class spell list; "Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list."

So while he's using UMD, it's as if Liveoak is on the Warlock class list.

-Hyp.

 

[Someone]

If the Wizard spends the XP, the caster level of the scroll or wand cannot be higher than his caster level, and a scroll will be arcane. (This leads to a wizard and a cleric cooperating to produce a scroll of CLW that only a Bard can use.)

There´s always Use Magic Device. And maybe a multiclass cleric/wizard, or a cleric with the magic domain could. After all, the rules for reading a scroll don´t mention that the spell has to be in the arcane spellcasting class´ list: only that he must have the spell in his class list (he does, as a cleric) and he must be able to cast arcane spell (he´s able, as a wizard)

If that´s true, that leads to another question; could a mystic theurge scribe his divine spells as arcane scrolls, and his arcane spells as divine, so only a handful of casters can use them?

 

[Shin Okada]

"The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)"

Thanks. I have been missing that text. Now I found it. I have been just reading magic item creation section.

UMD doesn't let you mimic another class spell list; "Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list."

So while he's using UMD, it's as if Liveoak is on the Warlock class list.

-Hyp.

I see. But there is another question. If a divine caster (say, a cleric) with high enough Use Magic Device skill activate an arcane scroll, does he still suffer arcane spell failure chance? The DMG P.238 says "Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance (such as armor)". But if a cleric is activating a scroll "as if he had that spell on his class spell list", is is still an arcane spell?

How about a Warmage activating an arcane scroll made by a wizard, which contains a spell which is not in Warmage spell list? Does he still suffer arcane spell failure change? Or does he activate it "as if that spell is on his class list" and thus can use "armored mage" ability?