Core+CW+CAdv Archer, no?

[Jackinthegreen]

Depending on what weapon you'd like to use, Crossbow Sniper is a good pick for ranged attacks. You might want to get Ranged Weapon Mastery, which necessitates 4 fighter levels for Weapon Specialization but can be well worth it.

Has the player decided on a race? Have any stats been rolled or assigned? What levels do you expect the game to run?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

A friend has asked me what I think of him going an Archery character but he is limited to Complete Adventurer, Complete Warrior, Player's Handbook 1&2 as well as DMG/MM but he shouldn't be reading them since they aren't for players.

My immediate reaction was "Baaaad!!!" but am I right or is there a way to make a decent build, since the world is more martial and low-magic Wizards/Sorcerers will be very uncommon but will be the stronger enemies (BBEGs are magic users) so they have to fight Warriors and other Archers

Your reaction was correct. Those books add basically nothing at all to the field of archery. If I was told to play an archer and was given the choice of books to pick, not a single one of those would be on my list.

With those requirements, he's basically limited to being a rogue archer if he wants to be effective, and he still won't be until he can afford a ring of blinking. Seeking property on the bow is also largely essential.

Depending on his definition of "archer," another rogue route would be Master Thrower from C.W. tossing daggers. Still needs ring of blinking, but now he can hit flat-footed touch AC and really do some damage.

DMG/MM: DMG has the magic items and prestige classes, players should definitely be able to read it! And any class the shapechanges or summons or has a pet/mount basically needs to be able to look in the MM. Hogwash!

 

[Omegaxicor]

[MENTION=6678119]Jackinthegreen[/MENTION] nothing has really been decided, he wants to go Human because he doesn't like roleplaying other races, stats are going to be a point buy system (I don't know the value) I assume the game will run from 1-whenever they get bored or explore the whole world (so mid-high teens)

[MENTION=35909]StreamOfTheSky[/MENTION] Magic Items/Prestige Classes I concede but shapeshifting is magic that will be unavailable, so the MM is still not something for player's to read (but in a normal game I concede that too)

Well he wants to play an Archer and the DM has said that it is a Core Martial campaign, given that Swift Hunter may be allowed, what do you recommend for other feats (I'm thinking Weapon Focus (Greatbow) and Ranged Weapon Mastery).

Is Weapon Supremacy worth it for an Archer (not this one because of the feat requirements) so he can use the Greatbow in a grapple?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Weapon Supremacy is like level 18 or 20... I wouldn't build for that if the game's starting at 1. It is extremely rare to see a game actually last that long, and when it does, it probably takes 1-3 years to get there.

If Swift Hunter is allowed, obviously he should be a Scout/Ranger, though with the book selection he's going to have a tough time moving 10+ ft and full attacking, and Greater Manyshot, much as I personally consider it a trap, isn't even available, either.

If it's not, I'd do the rogue archer, or if he doesn't want that... a Ranger X / Fighter 4 build w/ Ranged Weapon Mastery, I guess. He won't have access to any of the ranger spells that actually make rangers good archers (like Arrowmind, Hunter's Mercy, Hawkeye, Arrow Storm, etc... the core ranger spell list is by far and away the worst one in the game), sadly. But not sure what other full BAB class in those books would actually benefit archery more. Is UA allowed? Maybe Barbarian with Whirling Frenzy if so? The bonus attack is not restricted to melee only. You'd either need two different bows or beg the DM for a str-adjusting bow, though.

 

[Omegaxicor]

I don't know, because I am not part of the game, but I think they are using the Ranger and Paladin variant from Complete Warrior that gives up the spellcasting for a few crap abilities. How would you build a Scout X/Ranger Y build for Swift Hunter, I know there are very limited ways to move and full-attack in a Core game so does that make a rogue archer better than a Swift Hunter? If so what sort of build would you design to deal highest damage?

 

[Jacob Marley]

I don't know, because I am not part of the game, but I think they are using the Ranger and Paladin variant from Complete Warrior that gives up the spellcasting for a few crap abilities. How would you build a Scout X/Ranger Y build for Swift Hunter, I know there are very limited ways to move and full-attack in a Core game so does that make a rogue archer better than a Swift Hunter? If so what sort of build would you design to deal highest damage?

Swift Hunter's Handbook

As to which concept is better... it depends. How long will the campaign go? What environment will they be adventuring in? What sort of encounters will they be facing?

When you change these assumptions around you change the incentive structure, and therefore the valuation.

 

[Omegaxicor]

I have looked at that handbook and I have found some good ideas but a lot of what is recommended their is outside of the books available. As for the campaign, I don't know it will go on until they get bored, it will journey from environment to environment over the course of the campaign and the encounters will be equally varied, I assume...

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Normally, it'd be rogue archer for most damage, just because SA progresses twice as fast as skirmish. But...sneak attack requires spells or magic items to work from range past round 1, so in this game it probably won't work too well.

Only real options here are Ranger/Scout swift hunter or Ranger/Fighter relying on Ranged Weapon Mastery and volley shooting to do good damage. Ranger/Scout could work out if mounted, to be able to move and fire. The mount will just be super vulnerable. But that's my current recommendation. Ranger/Scout on a mount. Eventually you'll have a gimpy animal companion. Till then, buy a mule, they're like 8 gp. Train it w/ Handle Animal as part of your background coming into the game.

Not sure which is better to start as. Ranger offers BAB +1 and better proficiencies. Starting in Scout, long run, is netting an extra 6 skill points, and you start off w/ the nice skirmish +1d6 at a level where you don't have rapid shot anyway. You definitely want Ranger 2 for Rapid Shot by 3rd level, though. No sense putting that off forever.

EDIT: WTF is with that guide? Wood Elf is my favorite race for swift hunter! +2 str and dex, con is less important cause you're not in melee, and ranger as favored class.

 

[Dandu]

EDIT: WTF is with that guide? Wood Elf is my favorite race for swift hunter! +2 str and dex, con is less important cause you're not in melee, and ranger as favored class.

Finger of Death.

 

[Omegaxicor]

Ranger/Scout could work out if mounted, to be able to move and fire. The mount will just be super vulnerable. But that's my current recommendation. Ranger/Scout on a mount. Eventually you'll have a gimpy animal companion. Till then, buy a mule, they're like 8 gp. Train it w/ Handle Animal as part of your background coming into the game.

Not sure which is better to start as. Ranger offers BAB +1 and better proficiencies. Starting in Scout, long run, is netting an extra 6 skill points, and you start off w/ the nice skirmish +1d6 at a level where you don't have rapid shot anyway. You definitely want Ranger 2 for Rapid Shot by 3rd level, though. No sense putting that off forever.

Scout 1/Ranger 2/Scout 17? Does either class get Ride as a class skill? any ways to get ride as a class skill for all classes?