Core materials: Action Points and Insider

[Danzauker]

I'd like AP to be more than just "reroll" points.

I'd like to see more mechanics related to them.

You really need that extra Smite? Burn an AP

Used all your Turn Undead? Burn an AP and get another

I never really liked the "fixed number of uses" kind of abilities.

Failed the stabilization roll? Burn an AP to reroll (if stabilization works like in 3.5)

Having a mechanic similar to AP in the game will make the characters more versatile. It's that "little more" that makes them special.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

I like systems like Shadowrun or L5R, where you can either use the same points you use to raise skills and attributes as "action points" (Karma) or where you have a character trait that works as that (Void) and can be raised as any other trait. Both made sure characters did have a very small supply of those, but both also gave them quite an effect. Especially in Shadowrun, you could buy automatic successes by permanently burning karma points. So basically, I have some good experiences wiht those kinds of systems, as long as they are not just another mundane (read "everyday") resource characters spend willy-nilly.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

An action point system to let you take a defensive-only type of action to save yourself (or a teammate) instead of just a static boost to a roll would be a cool use.

 

[Belen]

re: M&M... huh?

How does allowing a PC to temporarily do things outside the scope of their character's abilities equal 'being compelled to perform for the DM? I assume you're talking about using AP's to temporarily gain Power Stunts (and not beating Fatigue or making Toughness saves).

No. I am talking about forcing your character to ham it up for the DM in order to gain more AP. This happens in M&M. You have to perform in order to get them and if you do not have them, you can be seriously screwed. I detest that mechanic.

 

[Henry]

No. I am talking about forcing your character to ham it up for the DM in order to gain more AP. This happens in M&M. You have to perform in order to get them and if you do not have them, you can be seriously screwed. I detest that mechanic.

That's why I spend power points to buy as many as possible before the game. But yes, I know the mechanic you're talking about, and it's fun, but for people not into playing out the stuff they recommend, it can be a pain.

 

[Belen]

That's why I spend power points to buy as many as possible before the game. But yes, I know the mechanic you're talking about, and it's fun, but for people not into playing out the stuff they recommend, it can be a pain.

Heck, if you're having a bad day, then it is a bad mechanic.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

No. I am talking about forcing your character to ham it up for the DM in order to gain more AP. This happens in M&M. You have to perform in order to get them and if you do not have them, you can be seriously screwed. I detest that mechanic.

I hate that mechanic. It can be fun for convention games, I suppose, but I do not like the mechanic as a core method of regaining Action Points. Yuck.

 

[drothgery]

Ugh. That's a lousy mechanic. I don't mind some of the Eberron feats that do that, because they are pretty well set up to feel like extraordinary luck, anyway. But to through APs for barbarian rage, martial maneuvers, turn undead, spells, etc. would sucketh mightily.

FWIW, the SWSE abilities that run off of Force Points tend to be either luck based (the Scoundrel's Fortune talent tree leans heavily on action points) or actual applications of the Force (which makes sense cause they're, well, Force points).

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I am not sure I like the implication that action points are core. I do not like action points. I do not find them useful for the game. I have used them in other system and found they just added mechanical mess with no real, positive effect on the game other than to shield players from bad choices or bad rolls. I hope that it will be eaiser to excise them from the game.

I also do not like the implication that D&D Insider is core. There is a reason that some DMs prefer to limit the amount of material in their game. I do not consider this a DM-friendly move. I can already hear players demanding items in their game because "Wizards" says that it is core. I find this highly annoying. DMs run the games that sell products. Why make our lives more difficult?

I agree on both counts. I don't like action points and I don't like whiny players having yet another excuse to whine about their DM house-ruling out a mechanic which the DM doesn't like. And that's assuming that APs can be easily house-ruled out. If there are class abilities, feats and whatnot that rely on APs it'll be a pain to house rule out and even more of an opportunity for players to whine.

Many 3e players already feel tremendously empowered to whine when their DMs non't allow non-core material. With Insider labeled as core material, it'll exacerbate the problem.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

I agree on both counts. I don't like action points and I don't like whiny players having yet another excuse to whine about their DM house-ruling out a mechanic which the DM doesn't like. And that's assuming that APs can be easily house-ruled out. If there are class abilities, feats and whatnot that rely on APs it'll be a pain to house rule out and even more of an opportunity for whiny players.

Many 3e players already feel tremendously empowered to complain about their DMs not allowing non-core material. With Insider labeled as core material, it'll exacerbate the problem.

I only allow my non-whiny players to use Action Points, so it all balances out.