core problem: duelist

[Rystil Arden]

I've built a skeleton of a character, but I still have money left over to spend. I think this Fighter will clearly outperform the Duelist by huge amounts on every challenge except for a 1-on-1, which is only a toss-up because of the Duelist's Brilliant Energy weapon, as otherwise both combatants would only hit their foe on a 20 (assuming Duelist fought defensively). If anyone has any good suggestions for me or pawsplay to refine, do let us know.

[SBLOCK="Betty" Skeleton]Human Fighter18

Str 12 (14)
Dex 20 (26)
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 8

Feats (16): Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Thinblade), Exotic Proficiency (Thinblade), Oversized TWF, Weapon Spec (Thinblade), Greater Focus (Thinblade), Greater Spec (Thinblade), Melee Weapon Mastery, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Improved Critical, Two Weapon Pounce, Two Weapon Rend, Power Attack, Shield Spec, Shield Ward, Weapon Supremacy, Quick Draw

8 Attacks per round: 18 BAB + 8 Dex + 5 Weapon + 2 Focus + 2 Mastery - 2 TWF = 33 (or 35 if one weapon). Damage = 1d8 + 4 Spec + 2 Mastery + 2 Str + 4 Weapon = 16.5 (or 15.5 off-hand), and an extra 6.5 from rend if hit with both.



AC: 10 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 5 + 5 + 1 + 1 = 46 (33 Touch, 38 flat-footed)

260k--2 18k weapons= 100k, 36k Dex item = 64k, 22k celestial armour = 42k, shield 49k = -7k + 64k = 57k, 5 Ammy and 5 Ring = 31K, Cloak 5 = 6k, Str, Boots of Speed, Ioun, spares = 62k left for one-uses etc.

spares (+1 ghost touch bane undead morningstar, +1 adamantine thinblade, +1 cold iron thinblade, +1 greatsword, +1 bow)

one-uses: Everything pawsplay took [/SBLOCK]

 

[Rystil Arden]

Running incomplete Betty against some of the monsters, it looks like she kills off more than half of them of them immediately if she can get a full attack.

Truly Horrid Umber Hulk is hit automatically with every single attack excepting a roll of 1, even with Power Attack 2 (using the Take 10 of Weapon Supremacy on the last iterative), and it barely survives this (260 Damage (including HP lost due to Con) on average, and it has 270 HP), so Power Attack 3 or 4 (thus making one of the attacks possibly miss on a 2 or 3) will take care of it in one, or I could just use some of the cash on a Holy weapon or something. It still might succeed with a Confusion attack, but same is true with Duelist.

Vampire requires Silver Sheen but dies from just a few attacks (though with its high AC, it is possible for attacks to start missing on a 3 or so starting at the second, then using Weapon Supremacy with both of the thirds, she can ensure that she hits with 7/8 attacks unless she rolls 3 or worse on one of the three at +28. That should be enough to send the Vampire back to its coffin.

Switch Vamp with Marut Inevitable and it winds up a stand-off: Betty (and the Duelist too!) have trouble with Chaotic damage, but the Marut can't hit. Kiss a Lilitu and it makes the job much easier.

The Giant is an easier version of the Umber Hulk.

The Lich might do something tricky, but if it gets a full attack with just the morningstar (wielded in two hands), it dies instantly and easily. Still, this is probably a win for the Lich against both of us if it uses Will save spells.

The Beholder will die unless it flies away and uses anti-magic eye to prevent chase, but then it can't attack either. It's eye beams can't hit anyway.

The Nalfeshnee and Nightwing may require flight pursuit, but fortunately neither is particularly fast. The Nalfeshnee is dead after the first full attack but the Nightwing is made of tougher stuff and requires a bit of icing to finish it off.

The Iron Golem is a pain in the arse, but Power Attack with an Adamantine Thinblade wielded in two hands should take care of it eventually (takes two full attacks though), and it still can't hit--none of these enemies can hit.

Hydra is really easy to kill if it comes in--pawsplay, I know you said a Hydra wouldn't mind sucking up the first full attack so that it could later get full attacks and retreat, but the TWFer is guaranteed to kill it in the first full attack.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Just for the heck of it, I ran incomplete Betty against the ones pawsplay suggested too (at least the ones for which I had stats):

Hydra--dead just like the other one.

Ogre--Betty lets it charge her and then kills it in one round with enough left over to kill another (to get this, I advanced the Ogre Bbn4 by 5 levels)

Others--I'd need to see the NPCs' builds to comment: There's nothing exactly like them in the MM.

However, assuming the Drow Cleric was just the NPC Cleric from DMG + Drow:

Cleric and Golem--Cleric dies without a full attack, even. A charge is way more than enough to cover killing her. Then her pet dies on a full attack.

Still, none of these things can hit Betty.

 

[pawsplay]

Running incomplete Betty against some of the monsters, it looks like she kills off more than half of them of them immediately if she can get a full attack.


However, that is a major premise in question.

 

[Nifft]

Rystil: For Betty, may I suggest the humble Dagger be her focused weapon? It saves her a few feats, and she can throw them. (Useful vs. Beholder for example.) The dual damage types are very nice -- can't think of any other ranged weapons which deal slashing damage. Also, the humiliation of being beaten with simple daggers will leave a deep scar on the psyche of her foes...

Finally, I don't see anything about Ranged Weapon Mastery not stacking with Melee Weapon Mastery (or even Melee Weapon Mastery not stacking with itself for weapons with dual damage types), so you could get up to +9 to attack and +10 damage with daggers, all for the low price of six feats.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Rystil Arden]

Rystil: For Betty, may I suggest the humble Dagger be her focused weapon? It saves her a few feats, and she can throw them. (Useful vs. Beholder for example.) The dual damage types are very nice -- can't think of any other ranged weapons which deal slashing damage. Also, the humiliation of being beaten with simple daggers will leave a deep scar on the psyche of her foes...

Finally, I don't see anything about Ranged Weapon Mastery not stacking with Melee Weapon Mastery (or even Melee Weapon Mastery not stacking with itself for weapons with dual damage types), so you could get up to +9 to attack and +10 damage with daggers, all for the low price of six feats.

Cheers, -- N

Hmm...very nice! I'll do it, but I want to ask pawsplay if its okay first (if he thinks those feats stacking is a gimmick, I don't want to win just because of a 'gimmick'). Those note that for some of these monsters, the only way I'm killing them is a massive power attack (with the two Thinblades, Betty gets +1 Damage on both weapons)

 

[Rystil Arden]

Running incomplete Betty against some of the monsters, it looks like she kills off more than half of them of them immediately if she can get a full attack.


However, that is a major premise in question.

If she can get a Hustle or Lion's Charge effect, she automatically does so. Otherwise, many of these fellows don't have anything useful they can do from range, and the ones that do will have to keep retreating and provoking an AoO each round as Betty charges and attacks twice (then a third time for the AoO), while Power Attacking massively because she knows she won't have to hit with any iteratives. This causes them to die in two rounds (or three for the Nightwing).

 

[lottrbacchus]

I should get a prize for starting this thread. Maybe a pony.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I should get a prize for starting this thread. Maybe a pony.

I hereby grant you a virtual pony.

no warranty implied

 

[lottrbacchus]

I hereby grant you a virtual pony.

no warranty implied

AWESOME!

And went back and read the rest of page 1 (I thought it had already been on page 2 when I last posted) and wanted to thank Nift and Felon, ahd heck, and all y'all.

There was another post with a build that could give +10 ac for high int using the right books. We are pretty core, so I'm not sure about even using those sources. Be that as it may, the Duelist would have to have a 20 int to get the +5, and be 5th level PrC as far as I can read the rules.

The problems for me are: A) The character has to have 5 levels of Duelist for this to work, and it seems a bit long to wait for the PrC to be tough.
and B) At least in my world, high attributes are a bit tough to come by. I'd generally sink the level adds into dex (which would have been the character's highest attribute to start). But I guess a base 16 int with a whatever of +4 int could work. Would hate to lose that magic item though...

Anyhow, I'm off to enjoy some mystical adventures with my new magic half-celestial fallen chaos pony of discord.