Corrections to Monsters in the CC

Cleon

Hero
Dang it, there's another error. The Dire Werebadger's animal and hybrid forms should have flat-footed AC 15, not 18. I've fixed that too.

Oh double dang it. Dire Badgers have Toughness, so it needs 3 more hit points! Correcting it again.
 

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Cleon

Hero
Problems with the Scarlet Dancer

The Creature Catalog conversion of the Scarlet Dancer appears to be a very inaccurate representation of the original monster. Amongst the problems are:

(a) The AD&D Scarlet Dancer is a living biological creature - so why is the conversion an Undead?
(b) The AD&D Scarlet Dancer could be injured by normal weapons - so why is it Incorporeal and a Fine Swarm?
(c) The AD&D Scarlet Dancer are "without an outward humanoid appearance (such as a face with the look of intelligence)" - so why does the conversion describe it as "of vaguely humanoid shape"?

I'm guessing the above was because the 3E Crimson Death in Monster Manual II is an Incorporeal Undead. However, their MCA3 entry concludes by saying "In fact, crimson deaths and scarlet dancers are in no way biologically related".

Anyone game for redesigning them to be more in line with the original monster?
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
It's incorporeal because it is made of mist, and it's a swarm because we extrapolated the cluster to more of them together. It was a somewhat loose conversion. Fine size came from the 2 inch size listed in the original entry (see here). Not sure about the Undead and humanoid shape, probably misreadings as far as I can tell looking back on that thread.

I could see some revisions, but I don't think I'd want to do a full reconversion.
 

Cleon

Hero
It's incorporeal because it is made of mist, and it's a swarm because we extrapolated the cluster to more of them together. It was a somewhat loose conversion. Fine size came from the 2 inch size listed in the original entry (see here). Not sure about the Undead and humanoid shape, probably misreadings as far as I can tell looking back on that thread.

I could see some revisions, but I don't think I'd want to do a full reconversion.

Yes, I managed to track down the original discussion thread before I posted the query.

They should definitely be a Swarm, but I think a Tiny Aberration (Swarm) would be a much closer match to the original monster than a Fine Undead (Incorporeal, Swarm).

Anyhow, if you don't fancy a reconversion I could always just Cleon Special it.:cool:
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Oh, right, meant to answer this. How about we leave the version in the CC there, perhaps with a slight rename and a note added, and then do a revision based on what still fits from that version?
 

Cleon

Hero
Oh, right, meant to answer this. How about we leave the version in the CC there, perhaps with a slight rename and a note added, and then do a revision based on what still fits from that version?

Works for me!

We might as well leave it until we've finished one of our running conversions, though.
 

Cleon

Hero
Spotted a couple more minor problems this week.

The Noviere Ghaele has a height "between 5 to 7 feel". That seems a bit too tactile to me, so I've changed it to feet.

Finally, when we converted the Dragon #137 and #167 Pleistocene beasts to 3E we added their "Common Name", where given, after the "Scholar's Name" - e.g., the Amphicyon (Bear Dog) and Anancus (Pike-Tusked Elephant).

Some of them are missing the "Common Name", and I feel I should add them in for consistency.

Also, I don't think we needthe "giant" in the "Bear, Giant, Short-Faced" - it's a regular-sized Cave Bear, not a giant one! Just "Bear, Short-Faced (Cave Bear)" would be ample!

If we follow that consistently, we should make the following corrections:

Agriotherium (Savannah Bear)
Amebelodon (Shovel-Tusked Mastodon)
Andrewsarchus (Giant Long-Jawed Hyena)
Bear, Short-Faced (Cave Bear)
Eucladoceros (Giant Forest Deer)
Lion, Spotted (Cave Lion)
Sarkastodon (Long-Tailed Bear)

Shall I rename them as above? There may be a few more that I haven't noticed.

Oh, just one thing. I don't like the "Giant Long-Jawed Hyena" name of the Andrewsarchus much. Can you think of an alternative?
 


freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Sure, I guess we can add the common names to those prehistoric critters. For andrewsarchus, I guess you could just drop the "giant" to make them "long-jawed hyenas."
 

Cleon

Hero
Sure, I guess we can add the common names to those prehistoric critters. For andrewsarchus, I guess you could just drop the "giant" to make them "long-jawed hyenas."

I don't like "Giant Long-Jawed Hyena" because it's not a Hyena or even vaguely related to one. They're giant carnivorous hoofed mammals who are more closely related to a horse or boar than an actual hyena.

Let's leave them "Andrewsarchus" for the moment.

I'm modify the CC entries for the other prehistoric beasts in the list.
 

Cleon

Hero
I'm modify the CC entries for the other prehistoric beasts in the list.

While modifying the names, I noticed the Eucladoceros's background description gives "Bush-Antlered Deer" as its alternative name, so I'm using that instead of "Giant Forest Deer".

I've also remembered that the Short-Faced Bear is a different animal to the Cave Bear - the former is the American species Arctodus simus, the latter is the European species Ursus spelaeus.

This means that the Cave Bear doesn't have a 3E conversion!

Incidentally, the Short-Faced Bear is also called the "Bulldog Bear". That's a cool name, I think we should include it in the writeup.
 

Cleon

Hero
I'm modify the CC entries for the other prehistoric beasts in the list.

I've finished modifying the CC entries' names.

It seems a good idea to tweak the descriptions to include or mention the common names. The "bush-antlered deer" and "cave lion" already have those names in their description, so I'm happy with them as-is.

Any objections to the following:

Agriotherium (Savannah Bear)

Agriotherium is not a true bear, but rather a hemicyonid, close relatives of bears built for running. They prefer open terrain, so are sometimes called "savannah bears". Rather than the omnivory of most bears, Agriotherium is a true carnivore, feeding mostly on the flesh of elephants, rhinos and other huge beasts, although it can and will scavenge and feed on fruits, grubs and honey. Agriotherium hunts in pairs or in small packs, and these groupings are very territorial--they are likely to view intrusions of humanoids into their ranges as a threat.

Amebelodon (Shovel-Tusked Mastodon)
The amebelodon is a mastodon-sized proboscidean adapted to life in swamps and rivers. It uses its shovel-like tusks to scoop up water plants which make up the bulk of its diet or to scrape bark from trees.

Bear, Short-Faced (Bulldog Bear)
This immense, long-legged bear has a face resembling a bulldog or mastiff. It rears up on its hind legs, standing as tall as a fire giant, and lets out a mighty roar.

Sarkastodon (Long-Tailed Bear)
Although it superficially resembles a long-tailed bear or heavyset cat, Sarkastodon is a creodont, a seperate lineage of carnivorous mammal. One of the largest carnivorous mammals ever to live, Sarkastodon specializes on hunting enormous prey, such as brontotheres and Indricotherium. Its bite can crush bone and its stomach is acidic enough to digest it, leaving little left for the scavengers.
 

Cleon

Hero
I don't like "Giant Long-Jawed Hyena" because it's not a Hyena or even vaguely related to one. They're giant carnivorous hoofed mammals who are more closely related to a horse or boar than an actual hyena.

Let's leave them "Andrewsarchus" for the moment.

Further on that, if we do decide to give this a common name, I'd prefer something along the lines of "Giant Wolf-Boar" or "Long-Jawed Hyena-Boar".

The "Boar" makes it clearer that these are hoofed mammals, and the "Hyena" or "Wolf" emphasizes their predatory nature. If we do that, we'd want to add a note that their original entry named them "Giant Long-Jawed Hyena".
 




Cleon

Hero
Just noticed a couple of errors in the Sentinel Eidolon.

First, its grapple should be +28 like a standard Iron Golem, not +29. It was correct in the Working Draft but got mistranscribed somehow.

Second, its psyforged blade should do 3d6+1d4+25 damage, not 3d6+26 - 3d6 for a Large greatsword, +1d4 for psychokinetic, +16 for strength, +4 for enhancement, +5 for collision.

Unfortunately, the current CC system doesn't let me edit Full Attack lines, so the only way to correct it is to create it as a new creature - Sentinel Eidolon (corrected).

EDIT: Dammit! I also forgot the greatsword's 19-20 critical threat range, so I had to recreate the Eidolon with a psyforged blade damage of (3d6+1d4+25/19-20).
 
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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Did you delete the old Sentinel Eidolon? Seems odd to have two versions. Maybe the best thing to do is delete the old one and then edit the link in the news item pointing to it.
 

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