Cost of magic items you create...again

[kreynolds]

...hopefull for the last time.

OK folks. I know this topic has been covered so many times that it's like beating a dead horse with a stick. It's been goin' on over on the House Rules thread too (pretty entertaining for me too ). So...here it is again.

If a PC Wizard creates a 2,000gp magic item, does that magic item count against him at the full market price (2,000gp) or at half the cost (1,000gp creation cost)?

This is strictly a rules question and/or interpretation of the rules, so please, no house rules (though an interpretation of a rule could be construed as a house rule or rule 0). I also realize that any part of the rules regarding item price and character wealth is simply a guide, but the guide uses a set rule for a baseline. This baseline is what is in contention.

I'll even make it easy and put up a poll for this, though you're comments and opinions about why you think it works the way you do would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I think only the amount they paid (1000 gp in the above example) would count against their baseline.

The DMG allows characters created above 1st level to create magic items from their baseline and allotted XP, so I feel this supports my position. I have seen nothing support the opposing position from the rulebooks, though they don't say much on the subject since it's just a guideline.

Edit: You do pay for the items in XP and feats in addition to the gold. Say, that reminds me of Sean's rant:
http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/whyitemsyoucraftcounthalf.html

And yes, this is an old post. I didn't remember that once I read it, so I just replied... ignore as needed.

 

[Gizzard]

The DMG allows characters created above 1st level to create magic items from their baseline and allotted XP, so I feel this supports my position.

Although the DMG does mention certain classes of items which cost "more" if you are creating high level characters for a short campaign. Things like potions and wands as I recall.

Although kreynolds is not interested in house rules, I think that special rules are needed to start high level campaigns in a way that the characters are not significantly more powerful than organically grown characters.

 

[hong]

Rangers got teh shaft, mang.

 

[mikebr99]

...hopefull for the last time.

If a PC Wizard creates a 2,000gp magic item, does that magic item count against him at the full market price (2,000gp) or at half the cost (1,000gp creation cost)?
Thanks.

Hey kr!

I'll go with half the cost used against his gp balance level.

10th level characters should have around 49,000gp... if they also spend the feat(s), they just get more value for their money (ie. more items).


Mike

 

[two]

Half the cost.

If you give $50,000 to 3 PC's, one of which is a item-creation wizard, and that wizard then creates $100,000 "by the book" worth of items, the wizard still only spent $50,000. Just like the other 2 PC's. The Wizard is buying items at reduced cost (50% reduced). The value of these items is 50% of book for the PC. After all, if an item is lost, it can be re-made at the same 50% cost.

Basically, you don't "create" wealth by creating items, which would actually penalize a PC for taking the feat. Rather, you reduce the item cost.

So, yes, a PC burning a feat or two or three, and XP's, and taking a lot of time out will be better equipped than a PC without item-creation abilities. That's, well, the benefit of item creation feats. Otherwise -- they are worthless.

It's also a reason when starting a PC at a pre-determined level it's sometimes a good idea to take some of these feats; you squeeze more juice out of gold that way. At the cost of feats and xp's, of course.

 

[Korak]

What is your question? From the responses it appears that people are giving you answers assuming you are starting a campaign.

The cost "against" a wizard, that is the cost in xp, is calculated at market price (3.5 DMG p 215, column 2 Cost to Create, last senstence) So the 2,000 gp ring would cost a wizard 80 XP.

If your question is, when I start a campaign, how much do magic items count against a PC's starting wealth, then the answer varies by edition.

For 3.0, the DMG instructed you to calculate 70% of the market price of an item as the cost against a character's starting wealth, but no XP.

For 3.5, the DMG instructs you differently. It recommends that you give PC a starting XP value. If PC's wish to have crafted items for their characters that they are generating above first level, then they calculate 50% of the market price against the GP value and the 1/25 of market price in XP. Since most DM's start characters with the minimum XP to be a certain level, a character who crafts will start a campaign at lower level than his companions. You can find all of this on page 199 of the 3.5 DMG.

This should answer the questions you must have, and my answers are "by the book" as you requested. Please phrase your exact question more carefully next time.

 

[Gizzard]

If you give $50,000 to 3 PC's, one of which is a item-creation wizard, and that wizard then creates $100,000 "by the book" worth of items, the wizard still only spent $50,000.

Yeah, but if you play that way what Wizard will not take tons of item creation feats? For example:

At 12th level a Wizard has 7-8 Feats and 88,000 starting GP. What if that Wizard takes the Craft Wonderous feat and then crafts up a Mantle of Spell Resistance SR21 ? Thats a 90,000GP item; an item so powerful he shouldn't even be able to posess it -- and it costs only half his starting cash! If the Wizard uses the rest of his cash to craft more wonderous items he will end up with 176,000GP worth of stuff. Eeek!

That means that one feat was worth 88,000 GP. Thats some nice feat. The Wizards will love you if you do this. The rest of the party will not, because the Wizard will be just nuts compared to the other members. IMHO you need to make some house rules about item creation.

 

[HeavyG]

That means that one feat was worth 88,000 GP. Thats some nice feat.

Well, no. Actually,

one feat + 7040 XPs + having the right spell known* + 6 months of campaign time to craft the items +88k gp = 176k gp of limited selection items.

* which I don't think your example could have. I don't think Spell Resistance is a wizard spell.

The Wizards will love you if you do this. The rest of the party will not, because the Wizard will be just nuts compared to the other members.

You mean that if a player makes a magical item, you are going to put less treasure in the next adventure ? What is the advantage over just buying it then ?

 

[Quirhid]

Half the cost plus 1/25 XP

For 3.5, the DMG instructs you differently. It recommends that you give PC a starting XP value. If PC's wish to have crafted items for their characters that they are generating above first level, then they calculate 50% of the market price against the GP value and the 1/25 of market price in XP. Since most DM's start characters with the minimum XP to be a certain level, a character who crafts will start a campaign at lower level than his companions. You can find all of this on page 199 of the 3.5 DMG.

I agree. If a PC has a chance to create an item, he or she should be allowed to do it.