Cost of magic items you create (SOLVED!!)

[Weeble]

Please note the following from the start of this thread...



Do you still maintain the same opinion? I just wanna make sure you understand the topic.

A PC is a PC, regardless of wether or not he/she is created at first level or above. They still follow the same rules for the value of magic items created.

 

['o Skoteinos]

Kreynolds: Of course it matters wether it's 'fair' or not. What Omegium means is that when you pay 1/2 price, you also pay XP. One item if 2.000 GP will not make the difference. But when you create for 250.000 (500.000 GP wealth level) you lose 20.000 XP. And that's when it's making a difference, because you are a level behind the other guys.

Eventually, I think, it balances out. If you want to create a lot of items, go ahead, but you will pay the price in levels, and to many wizards, a level is far more valuable than any created item (especially when they haven't reached level 17 yet). To calculate full wealth *and* give the XP penalty...isn't fair, nor balanced, and it takes away the benefit of creating items.

That's why I voted "calculate 1/2 price"

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

If my PCs are making items after they have been created, they pay half of the cost, plus the XP cost. I think that's fair (they get a benefit for taking the item creation feat, in addition to the flexibility of not having to find or buy items), and they also pay XP (which can be a big deal, especially if you want to make a really powerful item).

Magic items cost extra, because spellcasters want to make a profit, and paying XP is unpleasant (even for NPCs, IMC spending XP makes you feel drained and uncomfortable).

 

[kreynolds]

If my PCs are making items after they have been created, they pay half of the cost, plus the XP cost.

The same applies in my games. If you create a 2,000gp market price magic item, you only pay 1,000gp to make it, plus the XP, but it still counts against your wealth in full to ensure that you are balanced with everyone else. I run a boatload of different games and I've never seen a problem with this. They only actually "pay" half the cost, as the rules state, but to determine their power level using Table 5-1 in the DMG, it counts against them in full, as the rules state.

The part about that table that a few people seem to find terribly confusing is that they believe the table only applies to treasure "found", which is not the case. The values in that table represent roughly how much wealth they should have due to adventuring. It represents the growth of their pocket books as they increase in level, and the growth of their pocket books is part of what helps you determine how much gear they should have to keep them balanced with the encounters they will face. If they have too much gear, they're too powerful. If they're too powerful, you have to muck with the EL of every encounter to keep them challenged.

 

[kreynolds]

To calculate full wealth *and* give the XP penalty...isn't fair, nor balanced, and it takes away the benefit of creating items.

I haven't seen any evidence of that in any of my games, nor have I received any complaints. That's why I'm so confused as to why some people handle it the way they do.

I'm very good about allowing PCs the time off they need to make items, and I don't hassle them about it at all. If they have time off from adventuring, rarely do I ever even force a spellcraft check to examine the validity of a custom spell they create. They took the time off, thus shorted themselves some XP, so I don't figure they should be hassled any more than this. If someone wants to create a new spell and they take the time off, they simply spend the gold and time researching the new spell, I sit down with them, we figure out what they want the spell to do, and we finalize the spell.

The same goes for magic items. I won't hassle you when you're whipping up a magic item. Hell, if the rest of the party wants to continue adventuring, I dont' have a problem with that. I'll even take you out of the game and run you solo. During the hours that you're not working on the magic item, I'll run some role-play so that you can get to know some people. After all, casual conversation won't mess up the item creation process, and more role-play never hurts.

 

[Artoomis]

All characters have a limit to how much stuff they can have. At 20th level, you have a limit of 760,000gp of wealth, meaning all of your gear, magic items, etc, should total roughly this value. It's not concrete, but it is a guide.

So, a 20th level fighter should have roughly 760,000gp worth of equipment, possessions, etc.

Well, strictly by the rules this is not a true statement. All characters have a guidline for how much wealth they should have when creating new characters. If you wish to apply this a to manage existing characters, that's a house rule - a good guidline, but a house rule nonetheless.

That said, I'd use creation cost, not market value. Characters who create itmes pay not only creation costs in gp, but also pay in experience points. For a lower level charactyers, this is quite significant - a higher level character can, if I remember a previous discussion correctly, effectively double his value of possesions by spending ALL his value on creating items - at the cost of about 1/4 to 1/2 a level, I think - that's because what you are "allowerd" at each level goers up faster than the number of experience points you need per level.

 

[Weeble]

The same applies in my games. If you create a 2,000gp market price magic item, you only pay 1,000gp to make it, plus the XP, but it still counts against your wealth in full to ensure that you are balanced with everyone else. I run a boatload of different games and I've never seen a problem with this. They only actually "pay" half the cost, as the rules state, but to determine their power level using Table 5-1 in the DMG, it counts against them in full, as the rules state.

The part about that table that a few people seem to find terribly confusing is that they believe the table only applies to treasure "found", which is not the case. The values in that table represent roughly how much wealth they should have due to adventuring. It represents the growth of their pocket books as they increase in level, and the growth of their pocket books is part of what helps you determine how much gear they should have to keep them balanced with the encounters they will face. If they have too much gear, they're too powerful. If they're too powerful, you have to muck with the EL of every encounter to keep them challenged.

Where in the rules does it state it counts against them in full? How is it not the case that table 5-1 DMGp.145 “is based on treasures found…?” If a Wizard creates a magic item at 1000gp, that is what it is worth to him, its value. He or she could sell it at more, of course, representing the time, XP, and gp to make the item originally. It is simply not worth 2000gp to him or her though, and given the resources to make one, a Wizard spent those Feats to make items so that he or she doesn’t have to blow 2000gp to buy one.
PCs and NPCs follow the same rules as far as game mechanics go. Knowing this, see DMG p.47, last full paragraph, second column. A “spellcaster” is a “spellcaster”, regardless of being a PC or an NPC.

 

[kreynolds]

Well, strictly by the rules this is not a true statement. All characters have a guidline for how much wealth they should have when creating new characters. If you wish to apply this a to manage existing characters, that's a house rule - a good guidline, but a house rule nonetheless.

Incorrect. Read page 145 of the DMG, Character Wealth, 2nd column. It is a guideline, but it is most certainly not restricted to creating characters above 1st level.

 

[Weeble]

Where in the rules does it state it counts against them in full? How is it not the case that table 5-1 DMGp.145 “is based on treasures found…?” If a Wizard creates a magic item at 1000gp, that is what it is worth to him, its value. He or she could sell it at more, of course, representing the time, XP, and gp to make the item originally. It is simply not worth 2000gp to him or her though, and given the resources to make one, a Wizard spent those Feats to make items so that he or she doesn’t have to blow 2000gp to buy one.
PCs and NPCs follow the same rules as far as game mechanics go. Knowing this, see DMG p.47, last full paragraph, second column. A “spellcaster” is a “spellcaster”, regardless of being a PC or an NPC.

 

[kreynolds]

Weeble. I read what you posted. There's no need to requote it.