Cost to add +1 ability to Specific Weapon

[pawsplay]

ergo
+1 Longsword + Echoblade Feature + Flaming Feature = Flaming Crystal Echoblade

Careful with your ergos there. In your A + B + C = D

A is known, B is unknown, C is unknown until we know D, and D is unknown.

You are just not getting it.

A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions.

Simply because you can do it without restriction does not mean there are guidelines for doing so.

The Echoblade Feature does not exist. We are working with an echoblade. If you happen to find an "echoblade feature" in your MIC, let me know what page number it's on and we'll use that.

 

[Hypersmurf]

... your problem is that

1 +A +1 = 2 +A

I don't NEED to know what A is to tell you that much.

Let's say that A is the Keen property.

For a +1 Keen weapon, what is the Keen property worth? 6000gp.

For a +2 Keen weapon, what is the Keen property worth? 10000gp.

So if we take 1+A and add 1, it might be equal to 2+A... but the value of A has changed!

The assumption you're making is that the 'Echoblade feature' has a flat cost. We don't know that. It can't be stated as fact.

Similarly, it can't be stated that it doesn't have a flat cost.

The CustServ answer makes the same assumption; without a statement along the lines of "Assume that any property of a specific weapon not defined as an ability with a market price modifier has a flat cost", their answer is flawed.

-Hyp.

 

[Jhulae]

That's the ultimate issue. Since there's no specific ability listed for the "Echo" part in the 'Big List of Abilities', it does throw the wrench into the works.

However, seeing as the ability is very dependent on a single class feature, were I to rule on it, I'd have no problem with saying it's a +2000 gp ability.

But, HS is right. To blanketly say that's the case is incorrect. Each DM would have to make the decision for themselves.

 

[pawsplay]

And as I have stated before, the fact that it is not listed as a flat cost special property, which would be simply enough to have done, suggests that is likely the one thing it is not.

 

[gnfnrf]

The Magic Item Compendium explains exactly how to add effects to specific weapons, and even has an example, at least for relics. And (for relics, anyway) the nonstandard abilities are in fact fixed costs.

p 222, second column.

... An axe of ancestral virtue has an effective enhancement bonus of +2 (+1 plus another +1 for the keen property) so improving it to a +2 keen adamantine dwarven waraxe would cost 10,000 gp, just as it would for any other weapon.

Note that it doesn't say the relic abilities are fixed cost, it just assumes you know that. I think, similarly, it assumes you know that non relic abilities are fixed cost as well.

Are the rules as clear as they could be? No. Upon further study, is it obvious how they work? Yes. Take the base weapon of the specific weapon, and price the upgrade based on the difference between that and an upgraded version of that weapon. This effectively keeps the specific weapon property at a fixed cost.

--
gnfnrf

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Magic Item Compendium explains exactly how to add effects to specific weapons, and even has an example, at least for relics. And (for relics, anyway) the nonstandard abilities are in fact fixed costs.

Apart from being a +1 keen adamantine waraxe, what are the abilities of the Axe of Ancestral Virtue, and what's its market value?

-Hyp.

 

[gnfnrf]

Apart from being a +1 keen adamantine waraxe, what are the abilities of the Axe of Ancestral Virtue, and what's its market value?

It's a relic, so it's complicated.

First, it only functions as a +1 keen adamantine waraxe if you are lawful good, lawful neutral, or neutral good.

Second, you access it's other special abilities with the True Believer feat and 9 HD, or by sacrificing a 5th level spell slot to it (and worshipping Moradin). Then it becomes an intelligent weapon, but you only gain access to its greater power if you have TB and 13 HD or a 7th level sacrificed slot.

The weapon costs 8,530 gp.

The point is, none of this matters. You upgrade it, like ANY OTHER WEAPON, based on the +1 keen adamantine waraxe part.

--
gnfnrf

 

[Cheiromancer]

It sounds like, for a relic at least, that the relic powers are free.

Good catch, gnfnrf!

I'm leaning more and more to the idea that specific powers are flat costs; they don't interact with plussed special abilities or enhancement bonuses.

Of course this seems to mean that the costs of abilities like Echo and Frost Brand can be reverse engineered and applied to other weapons "without restriction". I'm not sure I am comfortable with that.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The weapon costs 8,530 gp.

That's 2500gp cheaper than a non-relic +1 Keen Adamantine Waraxe with no other unlockable powers... :\

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm leaning more and more to the idea that specific powers are flat costs; they don't interact with plussed special abilities or enhancement bonuses.

Of course this seems to mean that the costs of abilities like Echo and Frost Brand can be reverse engineered and applied to other weapons "without restriction".

One doesn't necessarily imply the other... and I'm still unconvinced of the first

-Hyp.