Pathfinder 1E Could Pathfinder take D&D's place...

[Arevashti]

Are you kidding me? I only know of Paizo because of Wizards of the Coast. Someone who has never played a roleplaying game in his life is going to have is going to have a greater chance of learning about D&D than Paizo can ever hope to achieve.

And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China and/or impersonality?

I... don't see how your post relates much to what he said?

Did you understand by "faceless" that Wizards is not notable? That isn't what he probably meant - he probably meant that Wizards' treatment of fans isn't as personal as Paizo's.

You called it on everything except the pronoun. In fact, I deliberately used the word "impersonal" rather than "faceless" because I thought it'd be less easy to misinterpret.

 

[GreyLord]

I think the point of the statement he made about Pathfinder even hoping to suceed is the name value.

D&D is so recognizable at this point, even when referencing who could be king of the RPG pile in this very thread, D&D is the name referred to.

D&D became so famous/notorious NOT from 3e, though many fans want 3e to be the thing that made D&D famous (hint, it wasn't, in fact overall it wasn't even a whimper comparatively...) it was the early 80s when it became a FAD that made it explode in popularity. It's sort of like Pokemon, what comes to mind of the average person when you mention it. It was a FAD that exploded with popularity and made the game (whether Pokemon or D&D) part of the public consciousness.

Both Fads faded.

I think Pathfinder can easily replace D&D as king of the Dirt pile of RPGs...however to get the name recognition where young boys and girls think...hey...that sounds interesting...I want to find out more about D&D...it's going to need an event similar to what happened to D&D in the 80s. It doesn't have to be a FAD, it could be something else, but that's what it's going to need to get the NAME RECOGNITION that D&D has.

I think in the long run, a slow build up to be the popular item is more reliable then the quick fix fad route. IF Pathfinder Basic makes it's way into the general stores (like Toys R' US, or even better WALMART) AND people actually buy it, I could see it slowly rising in popularity where D&D is eventually forgotten and Pathfinder replaces it.

In Video game console speak...it would sort of be the difference between Sony Playstation and the Wii. The Wii I think is a fad...and eventually everyone will remember it, but the Wii itself will fade into oblivious. Sony continues to use the Playstation name...as it's a system name that's built itself up over the years. Even with the PS3 (which early on people called a failure, but is now showing it's strength) it's a brand which is reliably selling.

For sustainment you want a reliable seller more than the fad.

Just my opinion.

 

[DaveMage]

If we're talking name recognition alone, I think Pathfinder can pass D&D - but not as just a tabletop RPG. It would need a blockbuster movie (or movies), a popular MMO, or something similar for it to do so with any speed.

However, it's a bit premature to be discussing this anyway. When D&D was 3 years old (1977), it wasn't very well known outside gaming circles (if at all). It was 7-8 years old, IIRC, when it really became a known entity to the general public (thanks 60 Minutes!).

 

[joela]

If we're talking name recognition alone, I think Pathfinder can pass D&D - but not as just a tabletop RPG. It would need a blockbuster movie (or movies), a popular MMO, or something similar for it to do so with any speed.

However, it's a bit premature to be discussing this anyway. When D&D was 3 years old (1977), it wasn't very well known outside gaming circles (if at all). It was 7-8 years old, IIRC, when it really became a known entity to the general public (thanks 60 Minutes!).

Don't forget some famous movie star who played DnD as a youngster (ala Vin Diesel). Anyone know someone famous who played/plays Pathfinder and is willing to admit it?

 

[darkwing]

I think it comes down to this statement which, admittedly, only holds true 70-80% of the time:

Those who have played older editions, or started before 4E was introduced prefer PF to 4E. Those who started since 4E began prefer 4E to PF

You really think 70-80% of the people that played older editions of D&D prefer Pathfinder to 4e?

I have my doubts. Tons of players play 4e. They can't all be new to the genre.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Don't forget some famous movie star who played DnD as a youngster (ala Vin Diesel). Anyone know someone famous who played/plays Pathfinder and is willing to admit it?

Does the creator of Dominic Deegan count?

The Auld Grump

 

[Shemeska]

I think the point of the statement he made about Pathfinder even hoping to suceed is the name value.

D&D is so recognizable at this point, even when referencing who could be king of the RPG pile in this very thread, D&D is the name referred to.

Here's the thing though, at this point in time, I'm not so sure that when someone outside the gaming community talks about "D&D" that they mean D&D as a specific brand name owned by WotC, but as a generic name for the hobby as a whole. I'd be curious to see among the massive name recognition of "D&D" out in the general public who then could also name who actually owns the brand. I wouldn't be surprised to see TSR named more than WotC/Hasbro among the public as a whole.

So then the question in my mind becomes, does Pathfinder even need to approach the same level of name recognition as WotC's D&D if the name recognition that D&D has isn't actually referencing the current brandname at all but has become a generic descriptor in the same way as Xerox, Tylenol, Coke, Q-Tip, etc?

 

[Dannager]

So then the question in my mind becomes, does Pathfinder even need to approach the same level of name recognition as WotC's D&D if the name recognition that D&D has isn't actually referencing the current brandname at all but has become a generic descriptor in the same way as Xerox, Tylenol, Coke, Q-Tip, etc?

Depends what you mean by "need". Having your product name referred to as the generic stand-in for anything even remotely like your product is huge. Obviously Pathfinder doesn't need to beat D&D to do well, but if they do want to supplant D&D, the fact that "D&D" might be a stand-in for any RPG in your average consumer's mind makes it harder for them to do so, not easier.

 

[gamerprinter]

Depends what you mean by "need". Having your product name referred to as the generic stand-in for anything even remotely like your product is huge. Obviously Pathfinder doesn't need to beat D&D to do well, but if they do want to supplant D&D, the fact that "D&D" might be a stand-in for any RPG in your average consumer's mind makes it harder for them to do so, not easier.

Most everybody who is not in the hobby think that I'm playing D&D when I'm playing Pathfinder. They are calling the hobby D&D. I don't really argue with them, as they are right! When someone seems to be interested in gaming specifically, then I get specific on which game I am playing.

I think that even if Paizo could make Pathfinder the default RPG (I'm not saying that would become so) - most non-hobbyists would still consider it D&D, and I'd still have to agree with them.

So Paizo doesn't need to supplant D&D. They just need to be the version of D&D being purchased by some majority.

 

[Matt James]

So Paizo doesn't need to supplant D&D. They just need to be the version of D&D being purchased by some majority.

Why do they need that? Is there some battle that has to be won? Why are people so eager to see something fail?