D&D 5E Countering Rest Spells (Tiny Hut, Rope Trick, et al)

[uzirath]

It seems to me that it's very unlikely that the vast majority of enemies will just have viscous oil, burning arrows and rock to mud/mud to rock spells lying around. Once in a while for the right enemy, sure. If it's happening to the PCs frequently, though, it's smacks of adversarial DMing to stop these spells.

That depends a lot on campaign assumptions. If a PC wizard is rare and unheard of, and most kobolds, orcs, drow, etc. have never dealt with their ilk, then, sure, they'll be green. If you imagine (as I usually do) that the party is simply one example of a relatively common archetype ("adventurers"), then many foes will be prepared to counter common strategies. In particular, one might reasonably imagine that if this particular group of PCs uses Tiny Hut (or whatever) at every opportunity, then it's likely that prior groups have thought of it too. Indeed, in the drow example, it could easily be a common spell among feuding drow, so thy may have developed tactics to deal with it.

I don't mean to dismiss your concern out of hand. It is definitely important to consider larger campaign assumptions and the intelligence of enemies. But there are ways of explaining smart foes that can be reasonable. My players certainly expect it.

 

[Oofta]

It seems to me that it's very unlikely that the vast majority of enemies will just have viscous oil, burning arrows and rock to mud/mud to rock spells lying around. Once in a while for the right enemy, sure. If it's happening to the PCs frequently, though, it's smacks of adversarial DMing to stop these spells.

Some thing I listed under "if they're prepped for this kind of thing". But it also depends on the monster. Last time this happened in my campaign it was vs a large hobgoblin patrol. Hobgoblins are described as being tactically minded, so throwing sticky bombs or building temporary shield walls seems right up their alley. It doesn't take any magic to blockade doors and fire arrows could be improvised. If I'm defending a keep, rock to mud or stone shape would be quite useful. I hardly doubt a high level caster with dispel magic would be all that unusual.

But remember, this is about a party taking a break in the middle of enemy territory, it's hardly a gotcha if they don't take proper precautions.

 

[Maxperson]

That depends a lot on campaign assumptions. If a PC wizard is rare and unheard of, and most kobolds, orcs, drow, etc. have never dealt with their ilk, then, sure, they'll be green. If you imagine (as I usually do) that the party is simply one example of a relatively common archetype ("adventurers"), then many foes will be prepared to counter common strategies. In particular, one might reasonably imagine that if this particular group of PCs uses Tiny Hut (or whatever) at every opportunity, then it's likely that prior groups have thought of it too. Indeed, in the drow example, it could easily be a common spell among feuding drow, so thy may have developed tactics to deal with it.

I don't mean to dismiss your concern out of hand. It is definitely important to consider larger campaign assumptions and the intelligence of enemies. But there are ways of explaining smart foes that can be reasonable. My players certainly expect it.

I'm just thinking that many enemies are not even humanoid or are rare creatures of types not commonly encountered, so there wouldn't be opportunity for those creatures to encounter the spell all that often.

 

[Oofta]

I'm just thinking that many enemies are not even humanoid or are rare creatures of types not commonly encountered, so there wouldn't be opportunity for those creatures to encounter the spell all that often.

Yep, depends on the monster. Casters are fairly common in my campaign, magic is relatively common. Tiny hut is still quite useful when camping in the wilderness and I always allow people survival checks to find an appropriate location and camouflage.

Quite different from casting the spell in the middle of a dungeon after every encounter and casting it in a way to block the entrances to the room as some people report.

 

[Umbran]

Why so butt-hurt?

Mod note:

Thiiiiiis close to leaving the thread. Just a smidgen more, and you will no longer have to worry about winning the argument, as you won't be allowed to take part in it any more.

Radical idea: Hey, everyone! Treat each other well! With respect, even!

 

[Tony Vargas]

One elephant in this room, is that these spells only seem OP because resting has such a profound and uneven effect on play.

A huge part of that is class design, so onne solution is to re-balance them around encounters. It's not a complicated undertaking, but it's extensive.

For every long-rest-recharge resource, divide the number of uses by 8 to convert to encounter resource, round accordingly (so 1-4 uses you don't get it; 5-12 you get 1/encounter, etc - you can group slots together to get 5+, you have to decide whether you go with lowest or highest slot in the group, I'd say lowest, to be safe), for short-rest recharge, divide by 2.

Just a little out-the-box thought.

 

[Tallifer]

It's a meaningful enough cost of a prepared slot to be safe from wandering animals at night.

One problem is that Tiny Hut is a ritual which thus costs no spell slots.

 

[ChaosOS]

One problem is that Tiny Hut is a ritual which thus costs no spell slots.

Sure, a prepared spell or spellbook entry is a smaller cost than a proper spell slot, but it's still a cost. The only two class besides wizard to get tiny hut is Bard and the new Twilight Domain cleric, but we'll ignore Bard because doesn't have ritual casting.

For a Wizard, Tiny Hut is one of two free spells you're picking up at 5. That means if you're also getting Fireball you're missing out on access so many other great 3rd level spells like dispel magic, counterspell, haste, and fly. If you wait to pick it up it becomes less and less of a problem, as enemies should become more and more challenging themselves. Now, you might say "what about bonus spells via scrolls". Well, those are entirely up to the DM - you should of course include some, but they don't have to be the top tier spells. Stuff like Sleet Storm makes for great scroll finds.

For a cleric, the domain spell makes it less of an individual cost and more of a wholistic "how's the overall domain balance". Given their new stance on UA is they release strong then tune down, I wouldn't worry too much about it for now.

 

[Oofta]

Sure, a prepared spell or spellbook entry is a smaller cost than a proper spell slot, but it's still a cost. The only two class besides wizard to get tiny hut is Bard and the new Twilight Domain cleric, but we'll ignore Bard because doesn't have ritual casting.

For a Wizard, Tiny Hut is one of two free spells you're picking up at 5. That means if you're also getting Fireball you're missing out on access so many other great 3rd level spells like dispel magic, counterspell, haste, and fly. If you wait to pick it up it becomes less and less of a problem, as enemies should become more and more challenging themselves. Now, you might say "what about bonus spells via scrolls". Well, those are entirely up to the DM - you should of course include some, but they don't have to be the top tier spells. Stuff like Sleet Storm makes for great scroll finds.

For a cleric, the domain spell makes it less of an individual cost and more of a wholistic "how's the overall domain balance". Given their new stance on UA is they release strong then tune down, I wouldn't worry too much about it for now.

A cleric won't have Tiny Hut, it's limited to wizards and bards. So the limit on spells known will apply.

It does vary by campaign though, it depends on how easy it is to get new spells. Oddly, according to DndBeyond "Tiny Hut" is also available to eldritch knights and arcane tricksters but "Leomund's Tiny Hut" is not. I guess the name brand version is just considered more exclusive?

 

[Seramus]

A cleric won't have Tiny Hut, it's limited to wizards and bards. So the limit on spells known will apply.

Twilight Domain Cleric gets it.