D&D 5E Counterspell

[Scorpio616]

the PC cannot cast two spells in a single round (unless one is a cantrip).

That is not the way the limitation on multiple spells works. The only limitation is when a spell with a bonus action casting time is involved. Nor does 5e have a prohibition on using Reactions during one's own turn.

Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn. You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.

Really?

You actually have a "Verbal, Somatic & Material components" window of time in your game?

How does that work?

DM: "NPC 3 is casting a spell." half breath pause "Ok, since nobody counterspelled, this is what happens."

This seems a bit repetitive to actually have a "Verbal, Somatic & Material components" window of time in your game.

It's more that half a breath, but yes it is a brief moment of time, not something to be pondered over. No more time than I give to a Player once i say "the foe moves away from you, drawing an OA". I decided the onus is on the player to remember if they have a counterspell prepped and to decide if they want to use it. I also don't want other players to try to browbeat someone for half a minute into using one of their precious spells when the player had already decided against it.

"The robed goblin begins to incant and perform gestures for a 3rd level spell," Since they person with the counterspell knew fireball, I added "possibly fireball". I'll then look at the players with counterspell for a brief time before describing the spell's effect.

 

[KarinsDad]

"The robed goblin begins to incant and perform gestures for a 3rd level spell," Since they person with the counterspell knew fireball, I added "possibly fireball". I'll then look at the players with counterspell for a brief time before describing the spell's effect.

How does the PC know that it is a third level spell?

 

[Scorpio616]

I decided to go with Mearl's opinion on that matter. As the spell levels in D&D have been fairly distinct in every edition save 4E, I can definitely get behind there being telltale signs of the spell's level in it's casting, even across numerous magical traditions with widely differing verbals and gesticulations.

And IMO, a spell is cast, then it's effect comes into being.

 

[Li Shenron]

It is possible that the rules are silent on the matter of "do you know the identity of a spell being cast?", which is quite more general than the counterspell scenario.

As a DM, I know that it's often very useful to obfuscate the nature of a spell. At least it helps a bit to improve the atmosphere of the game... as in 'you have been hit by a spell, but you have no idea what it was...' and then maybe you don't even tell the player yet what are the effects of it.

OTOH, this can hardly be the standard for every single spell cast in the game, because it will become tedious quickly. It's a lot more sensible to just let the players know when a common spell such as Magic Missile or Fireball is being cast, especially when the effects make it obvious anyway.

Counterspell is a more narrow scenario (you need to know only the spell level* so that you can choose whether to cast Counterspell with a 3rd level slot or with a higher one), but it has a possible complication in terms of quickness. Most players would expect that the countering happens before the spell's effects kick in (although narratively you could stretch that a bit and even say that it happens a fraction of time after the effects start but before they have significant consequences - assuming the countering has worked).

Honestly, I would not enforce a rule that requires a check to identify the spell each time. Normally when I have an NPC cast a spell I just say "the evil Wizard casts Fireball at your party" unless I want to create that moment of atmosphere, typically because I am using a spell that we have never seen in the campaign. I am not going to change this just because the PC Wizard might want to Counterspell and then I shouldn't make it too easy or whatever... I will still say "Fireball" and let the Wizard PC decide if it's worth counterspelling or not. Once in a while, when introducing a new spell, I might do as I said before and not tell what it is. Whether I'd allow a check or not, it will be up to my mood at the moment.

*Additional question: do you think that the Counterspell mention of 'spell level' (referring to the spell you want to counter) refers really to the spell minimum level or should it refer to the currently used slot level? If the evil Wizard casts a Fireball improved by using a 9th level slot, would you let Counterspell treat the Fireball as 3rd level ('spell level') or as 9th level ('slot level'). I think the latter is more interesting!

 

[DaveDash]

Got it.

So if you cast a Bonus action spell and a foe counterspells it, you cannot counterspell his counterspell because you cannot cast another spell with a bonus action spell.

But if you cast a normal Action spell and a foe counterspells it, you can counterspell his counterspell because reaction spells do not have that limitation.


However, if a caster has something in his hand which cannot be used with somatic components (i.e. something other than an arcane focus) and the original spell he casts has a somatic component, he cannot counterspell a counterspelll because he does not have an extra hand free to cast Counterspell (his one hand has something in it and the other hand is in use casting the original spell).

Hah yup that's pretty much it!

 

[sithramir]

Well if mearls says you know the level that helps. Seems odd that you can tell the fireball is 5th level instead of 3rd. Or maybe you can feel how much magic "power" it would take to counter spell it.

 

[Rune]

How does the PC know that it is a third level spell?

Clearly one of the somatic gestures is the holding up of three fingers.

 

[KarinsDad]

Clearly one of the somatic gestures is the holding up of three fingers.

Sixth level spells must need an additional body part.

 

[KarinsDad]

Counterspell is a more narrow scenario (you need to know only the spell level* so that you can choose whether to cast Counterspell with a 3rd level slot or with a higher one),

But, the player (or the PC) does not need to know this. The determination of high level slot for Counterspell just potentially automatically cancels the spell. Granted, the spell maybe should have been designed to increase the odds of canceling a spell with a higher level version of Counterspell as well, but the designers did not do that.

*Additional question: do you think that the Counterspell mention of 'spell level' (referring to the spell you want to counter) refers really to the spell minimum level or should it refer to the currently used slot level? If the evil Wizard casts a Fireball improved by using a 9th level slot, would you let Counterspell treat the Fireball as 3rd level ('spell level') or as 9th level ('slot level'). I think the latter is more interesting!

Spell slot level.


The ability for the players to willy nilly absolutely control Counterspell (i.e. they know the level of the spell being countered, and their low level version counters higher spell slot level spells) seems too much like an "I win" button and can lead to escalation like the NPC counterspelling the PC's counterspell.

I prefer at least some mystery and randomness in avoiding enemy spells. You cast Counterspell, you often roll an ability check with it.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

If I cast a spell and a PC declaired counterspell I would just tell them the level needed... I find it quicker and more fun but less 'real'.