Counterspelling -- Does It Work?
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Victim
First Post
If you can ready an action to counterspell, you could also ready to interupt the spell with a conventional attack. Unless caster's rountinely sport huge + Concentration skill items, then concentrating through a decent attack is pretty tough. Sure, it's not automatic, but neither is counterspelling - the wizard needs an apppropriate spell available or has to take his chances with a dispel check. Given the choice between negating an enemy action and advancing my own goals, and merely negating the enemy action, I'll go with the first one pretty much everytime.
Interestingly, possibly the most useful thing for counterspells is Dispel Magic. Not just as a universal counterspell, but as a spell to counter. The use of dispels is often rather tactically predictable given the importance of stripping foes of their buffs, or as an existing spell continues to cripple people. And there are relatively few options for dispelling, making it highly likely that the counterspeller has the appropriate spell for automatic success. And even you choose poorly and they don't attempt to dispel, then you can just attempt to counter whatever.
Interestingly, possibly the most useful thing for counterspells is Dispel Magic. Not just as a universal counterspell, but as a spell to counter. The use of dispels is often rather tactically predictable given the importance of stripping foes of their buffs, or as an existing spell continues to cripple people. And there are relatively few options for dispelling, making it highly likely that the counterspeller has the appropriate spell for automatic success. And even you choose poorly and they don't attempt to dispel, then you can just attempt to counter whatever.
Gold Roger
First Post
Usually there's better options to stop a spell with a prepared action. However, there are ways to make counterspelling more viable. For example both the duelward spell (SC) and the reactive counterspell feat (PGtF) let you counterspell without preparing an action (though at least with reactive counterspell you still loose your next action). There's also some feats and domains that improve your dispelling abilities.
I guess a mystic theurge with the duelward spell, the PG2 feat that improves your dispeling CL, the inquisition domain, Practised Spellcaster and many dispels as well as spells of all schools prepared would be quite good at neutralizing opposing spellcasters.
I like to use counterspelling once in a while. It's one of those maneuvers that are left forgotten 99% of the playing time and then shake one encounter into a completely new dimension when the right conditions are met (overrun and bullrush fit in here as well, I'd say).
Counterspelling is rather useless for most adventuring type, who put most of their recources in offense. However, I see my bad guys a bit more on the side of "staying alive first and then worrying about killing anything". Some of my 10+ masterminds would have a hart time eliminating anyone on their own, but between layers of protective spells (especially detect scrying and anticipate teleport, everyone of that level should have those, or I'd wonder how they came that far), a well protected lair and minions they are hard to kill. Yeah, a 10th level wizard can destroy a army on his own, but there are more then one of those and none of them wants to be caught out of spells after doing so (but I degress).
I guess a mystic theurge with the duelward spell, the PG2 feat that improves your dispeling CL, the inquisition domain, Practised Spellcaster and many dispels as well as spells of all schools prepared would be quite good at neutralizing opposing spellcasters.
I like to use counterspelling once in a while. It's one of those maneuvers that are left forgotten 99% of the playing time and then shake one encounter into a completely new dimension when the right conditions are met (overrun and bullrush fit in here as well, I'd say).
Counterspelling is rather useless for most adventuring type, who put most of their recources in offense. However, I see my bad guys a bit more on the side of "staying alive first and then worrying about killing anything". Some of my 10+ masterminds would have a hart time eliminating anyone on their own, but between layers of protective spells (especially detect scrying and anticipate teleport, everyone of that level should have those, or I'd wonder how they came that far), a well protected lair and minions they are hard to kill. Yeah, a 10th level wizard can destroy a army on his own, but there are more then one of those and none of them wants to be caught out of spells after doing so (but I degress).
I think the counterspelling rules in Arcana Evolved work a lot better. You can ready to counterspell any spellcaster that casts...meaning if there's 3 mages out there, you don't have to choose one. Then its an opposed caster check (you add in your spellcasting stat mod to the opposed rolls in AE), and bam, spell counterspelled. The big advantage is that it costs no spells to counterspell, and you don't have to use specific spells to counterspell other ones.
A mage in my AE games uses counterspell a lot to try and take down a powerful caster, or to save resources against weaker casters. Why spend spells when you can shut off their casting and let the fighters do their thang?
This version is also good for the whole army of mages kind of thing. A 5th level mage has little chance to counterspell a 10th level mage. However, 5 5th level mages have a pretty decent shot.
A mage in my AE games uses counterspell a lot to try and take down a powerful caster, or to save resources against weaker casters. Why spend spells when you can shut off their casting and let the fighters do their thang?
This version is also good for the whole army of mages kind of thing. A 5th level mage has little chance to counterspell a 10th level mage. However, 5 5th level mages have a pretty decent shot.
I've never seen it used and have often lamented how difficult and unlikely the rules make it, but in reading this thread a question has occurred to me:
Can you counterspell a Warlock's Eldritch Blast? eg: if two parties containing warlocks go head-to-head, can they cancel one-another out? Or does counterspell not apply since the warlock's blast is a spell-like ability (at least I think it is; I don't have a CA in front of me)?
Can you counterspell a Warlock's Eldritch Blast? eg: if two parties containing warlocks go head-to-head, can they cancel one-another out? Or does counterspell not apply since the warlock's blast is a spell-like ability (at least I think it is; I don't have a CA in front of me)?
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
Unless you have some special tactical insight that allows to you anticipate what your opponent is going to cast (e.g. the 6th level Sorceror countering the 10th level PC Wizard above, or the Defender's of Daybreak Cleric readying his Heal to counter the 3.0 Heal the beaten down dragon is about to cast) it is difficult to imagine that you would not be better doing the crude and effective "I Fireball him when he starts casting" tactic.
After all, you have a good chance of both inflicting damage AND stopping that spell with one Action. Why sell yourself short by only stopping the spell?
It is only really attractive to counterspell when you anticipate you are likely to burn a spellcasting Action that is tactically more valuable than your own. That requires either special insight as mentioned above and/or a lot more spellcasters on your team.
Honestly, I would never bother to Counter. But I might opt to not go for damage and try to temporarily stopping an enemy spellcaster with a Readied wall to disrupt the line of sight/effect. That can annoy the bejesus out of even an Arch-Lich while your allies eliminate his body guards -- this would be a good example of your Action being less valuable than his. Your simple Wall of Force will probably hose whatever hellacious high level hurting he was about to drop on the party.
After all, you have a good chance of both inflicting damage AND stopping that spell with one Action. Why sell yourself short by only stopping the spell?
It is only really attractive to counterspell when you anticipate you are likely to burn a spellcasting Action that is tactically more valuable than your own. That requires either special insight as mentioned above and/or a lot more spellcasters on your team.
Honestly, I would never bother to Counter. But I might opt to not go for damage and try to temporarily stopping an enemy spellcaster with a Readied wall to disrupt the line of sight/effect. That can annoy the bejesus out of even an Arch-Lich while your allies eliminate his body guards -- this would be a good example of your Action being less valuable than his. Your simple Wall of Force will probably hose whatever hellacious high level hurting he was about to drop on the party.
evilgamer13
First Post
One thing you could do is just use the folowing rules for inishitive, act last declare first. I've done that in one dnd group i was in (though our party sourcerer dint do any dispelling, so if he had the inishitive in the first place. Obviously he would still have to make his spellcraft check.
One of Piers Anthony's earliest Xanth books featured a character who was essentially immune to magic.
While such a PC would live a difficult life in a magic world- no buffs, no neutralize poisons, no heals, etc., neither would he fearmany of the most dangerous things in such a world. No fireball could scortch him. Nobody could command or curse him...
Unfortunately, such a PC would need some special rules to work in a D&D game- possibly a base class, but more probably a PrCl (lets call it The Null)- of some kind that had powerful, innate anti-magical abilties, like sudden counterspells, perhaps even a personal anti-magic field. Nulls would have to look a little like a gestalt of fighter & rogue (for fighting and skills enough to survive) and sorcerer (he'd need spell levels to keep track of counterspells) unless you just give them an ever increasing amount of stilled, silent, sudden dispel magics...
The null would suffer the same problems as a forsaker PC, except worse. Forsakers imo make terrible PCs in most typical games. They refuse to use any of the party's buffs, and they want to destroy party loot. But at least you can knock out the forsaker and teleport him along, the null couldn't be teleported for example.
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