DragonLancer
Hero
Its never ever been done in any D&D game I've played in nor DM'ed. Just doesn't seem (IMO) to be a really viable tactic.
-
NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Counterspelling?
- Thread starter Ogrork the Mighty
- Start date
DM_Fiery_Fist
First Post
I savaged an epic-level party in Undermountain by sending them against a very powerful wizard with the Epic Counterspell feat (from Player's Guide to Faerun) and the Consume Spell feat (from Monte Cook's Book of Eldritch Magic III: The Nexus). Needless to say, it took down their confidence level a little bit, though they had been warned time and time again about the dangers of Undermountain. Consume spell alone has made counterspelling more common in my games, and the addition of Epic Counterspell makes it very attractive for epic level casters.
Last edited:
Ogrork the Mighty
Explorer
In a nutshell, what does Consume Spell do?
Ogrork the Mighty
Explorer
That's a cool idea. Maybe the D&D version should have some kind of greater benefit to counterspelling to encourage its use. I agree that it is perceived as a defensive/passive action that may or may not be a waste of an action; allowing the counterspeller to actually gain something from counterspelling rather than just negating someone else's action might be a good way to make it more worthwhile.
jrients
First Post
I didn't know counterspell existed until I read that one Order of the Stick comic in which Vaarsuvius uses counterspelling against the bandit sorceress. I looked it up and now plan on using it if opportunity ever avails.
I've found Order of the Stick to be very educational more than once.
I've found Order of the Stick to be very educational more than once.
Steel_Wind
Legend
Counterspelling is a completely legitimate and *nasty* approach for a DM to take. It has a potentially huge impact upon your game and keeps things fresh, interesting and changes how battles unfold greatly.
If your players do not attempt counterspells, your NPC's should to add variety and tactical disruption to your encounters to teach them the benefits of doing so.
Situations where Counterspelling assists:
1 - Larger Number of Mooks
I tend to throw large number of foes at my players that are supporting higher level NPCs. There may be 20, 30 or even 50 low level 1 to 4 HD creatures present in addition to the more serious bad guys. This typically is not a terrible challenge to the Players on their own (party level is effectively 8).
But my campaign is the War of the Lance and I like to feature the WAR element in the adventures. This implies armies and lots of bad guys.
When throwing large numbers of relatively weak foes at a party of adventurers, the primary attack of the party to cut through the mooks to get at the serous bad guys will be fireball.
By saving sigfnificant numbers of low power bad guys, you will end up disrupting the party far more effectively than by casting fireball in kind. The greater elements of delay this provides allow you to leverage the more significant power of the larger nasties BBEGs for longer.
2- Critical Spell Disruption (Cherry Picking)
Battles have their own plans and their own rythyms. The old addage that no plan survives contact with the enemy is never more true than when you selectively target spell disruption via counterspelling. If your players are highly tactical and extremely experienced, they will focus a lot of power and planning on your encounters. My groups sure does. CR be damned, my group of players effectively increases the ECL of the party by at least +3 to +5 IMO. They are that good.
Nothing acts to reduce this "extremely experienced players" bonus like dispel magic and selective counterspelling (cherry pick) at opportune moments.
If your players do not attempt counterspells, your NPC's should to add variety and tactical disruption to your encounters to teach them the benefits of doing so.
Situations where Counterspelling assists:
1 - Larger Number of Mooks
I tend to throw large number of foes at my players that are supporting higher level NPCs. There may be 20, 30 or even 50 low level 1 to 4 HD creatures present in addition to the more serious bad guys. This typically is not a terrible challenge to the Players on their own (party level is effectively 8).
But my campaign is the War of the Lance and I like to feature the WAR element in the adventures. This implies armies and lots of bad guys.
When throwing large numbers of relatively weak foes at a party of adventurers, the primary attack of the party to cut through the mooks to get at the serous bad guys will be fireball.
By saving sigfnificant numbers of low power bad guys, you will end up disrupting the party far more effectively than by casting fireball in kind. The greater elements of delay this provides allow you to leverage the more significant power of the larger nasties BBEGs for longer.
2- Critical Spell Disruption (Cherry Picking)
Battles have their own plans and their own rythyms. The old addage that no plan survives contact with the enemy is never more true than when you selectively target spell disruption via counterspelling. If your players are highly tactical and extremely experienced, they will focus a lot of power and planning on your encounters. My groups sure does. CR be damned, my group of players effectively increases the ECL of the party by at least +3 to +5 IMO. They are that good.
Nothing acts to reduce this "extremely experienced players" bonus like dispel magic and selective counterspelling (cherry pick) at opportune moments.
Last edited:
Gez
First Post
Trying to make houserules so it would be more common.
Never seen it used, except once, in another campaign that is now ended, where it was used out of Deus Ex Machina to prevent a PC to kill the bad guy and every one else (5th fight in a boat below the deck, fireball). But then it was remembered the PC no longer had her spell component pouch anyway.
Never seen it used, except once, in another campaign that is now ended, where it was used out of Deus Ex Machina to prevent a PC to kill the bad guy and every one else (5th fight in a boat below the deck, fireball). But then it was remembered the PC no longer had her spell component pouch anyway.
Squire James
Explorer
I had a player "cherry pick" a counterspell a couple of times... stopping an enemy Heal spell often results in a dead enemy!
I once used a BBEG with a "wand gnome" sidekick. He was basically a low-level wizard gnome (perhaps with an INT too low to actually cast spells) toting a Wand of Silent Dispel Magic with lots of charges (paid from the BBEG's equipment fund). He stood around readying to counterspell the first spell the PC's cast each round. At least it made the PC's coordinate their spell attacks for once!
I keep threatening to equip each female drow with a "wand male"...
I once used a BBEG with a "wand gnome" sidekick. He was basically a low-level wizard gnome (perhaps with an INT too low to actually cast spells) toting a Wand of Silent Dispel Magic with lots of charges (paid from the BBEG's equipment fund). He stood around readying to counterspell the first spell the PC's cast each round. At least it made the PC's coordinate their spell attacks for once!
I keep threatening to equip each female drow with a "wand male"...
