Counterspelling?

[DM_Fiery_Fist]

Yeah, consume spell is excellent...it makes counterspelling a viable option, so I gladly allow it in my games. When combined with Epic Counterspell (which allows you an infinite number of counterspells every round, and you can take your regular actions, AND you can counterspell while flat-footed), it becomes extremely effective.

 

[SamhainIA]

At a guess, your campaign
1) Focussed on facing human opponents, with a liberal sprinkling of casters
2) Took part in a semi-social environment, where you're likely to have up-front knowledge of your opponents and their tactics

Without these two points, a counterspeller must ALSO have the ability to contribute in battles where his counterspelling will be useless.

It's also exceptionally pertinent to note that nowadays reactive counterspelling uses up not just the action required to counterspell - it uses up your WHOLE NEXT GO, and that old-style haste does indeed allow for a powerful counterspeller. Quickened spells, however, cannot be combined with the use of reactive counterspell (no go means no free actions either...). However a foe using quickened spells vs a counterspeller will quickly defeat him - the counterspeller can still only counter once per round as he can only ready a single action per round.

"snip, you schooling me on rules, I hang my head and stand corrected"

The campaign I was playing in was called living city, a large, national campaign run by RPGA and later wotc, and organized play (but that is neither here nor there). to describe the campaign, it is designed to play one session per four (or sometimes 8) hours with a low emphasis on RP and a high emphasis on characters that take advantage of combat rules ( some would call them "twinks" or "powergamed") the adventure is prewritten with static NPCs and goals. (you can find tons of info at www.rpga.com). At no point would I consider this a semi -social environment, but I would have to admit that during editing the common spellcasters did at get nerfed spell lists and tactics. Additionally, not many encounters were based on entire groups of spellcasters, more often were the solitary spellcasters, or the small groups of bad guys with usually one arcanist and on divine caster.

Specific tactics:
I found by taking a good mix of spells I could be effective against spellcasters and non-spellcasters. on my spell list: flame strike, firestorm, harm, destruction, sunburst, brainspider, slime wave, greater command. greater command and firestorm are fabulous for softening or taking care of encounters with "hordes" of creatures. but to be honest i got far more mileage out of other spells, mass heal, freedom of movement, heal, spell immunity remove paralysis (and now healing lorecall) to make my companions more effective.

you have to question what "your" role is to be really. Wizards are better off to nuke the piss out the baddies, their Damage outdoes the potential damage they prevent. Clerics on the other hand make great CSers, they dont have the Damage spells to keep up with a wizard. Put it this way,(assuming not too much disparity in level) whats more cost effective countering a meteor swarm(9th) with a 6th level spell (greater dispell magic, *I* need to roll an 8 at level 11 to counter a 17th level mage, work out the math for the rest on your own, its not a bad deal) or take the damage from it and need to burn one or more rounds with heals? for me, i see it as preemptive healing.

As a player there is nothing that makes me happier to cs a BBEG casting an escape type spell.

and the point of spellcraft to identify a spell, it dosent say anything about not being able to tell that a spell is being cast, that would make it bait for a generall dispell attempt with dispell magic.

nuff said from me at least.

--Samhain
player of Fair Kan of Mystra Master Counterspeller

*edit to make some sense of some obscure ramblings

 

[Gez]

I thought about something along those lines for counterspell house rules, but haven't implemented anything yet:

Counterspelling (aka spell duel) is an action that takes several rounds. You can initiate one as a swift action, but maintaining it is a standard action.

When a spellcaster casts a spell, you can use a swift action to spend one spell slot of equal or higher level than the spell slot he used to cast his spell in order to initiate the counterspelling.

If you are a spontaneous spellcaster, you must know of a spell of the same school as the countered spell, of a level no higher than the spell slot you used for counterspelling. If you prepare spells, the spell you spend must be of the same school. In both cases, if you have improved counterspell, this limitation doesn't apply. (The dispel magic line of spells also ignore this limitation -- a sorcerer knowing dispel magic can counterspell any 3rd-level or lower spell from any school.)

You and the opponent caster then both make opposed Spellcraft checks, adding the spell slot's level as a bonus. (This does give an advantage to wizards, who are better at counterspelling than most. Especially abjurers who have a +1 class bonus to this roll. Sorcerers also have an asset in that they're more likely to be able to counter than preparing spellcasters.)

If one spellcaster wins the opposed roll by 10 or more, then he can choose to dissipate the spell energy harmlessly, or to unleash it where he wants (in that way, it is possible to hijack another spellcaster's spell and turn it against him). With the Consume Spell feat, it is possible to instead absorb it to replenish a lower-level slot, which is nifty as well.

If neither beat the opponent by a wide enough margin, then the counterspelling is maintained to the next round. Both of the spellduelists' initiative counts are synchronised by the spellduel, so they act on the same round (use the lowest of both initiatives).

Maintaining a spellduel is a standard action for each duellist. If you are unable or unwilling to perform that action, your opponent automatically wins the duel. Both duelists must continue making opposed Spellcraft checks. Both can use a swift action to expend one of their prepared spells or spell slots in order to get a bonus equal to the spell slot's level to the check, however this is not necessary once the duel is engaged. Once again, a tie (difference smaller than 10 between both results) result in the spellduel maintained to the next round.

If you are distracted while maintaining a counterspell, you must succeed at a Concentration check (DC depending on distraction), just like casting a spell. Furthermore, any move action you do on that round is a distracting task with a minimum DC of 5 (use the normal DC if it is higher for this task, like riding a mount). If you fail the Concentration check, then your opponent automatically succeeds at the next spellduel check. (It's better to make your move action after maintaining the spellduel, that way your eventual failure won't be after the next round.)

Range: Spellduel, aka counterspell, can only be engaged or maintained if you are no more than 5 feet per Spellcraft rank from the opposed spellcaster. If one spellcaster is out of range but not the other (thanks to a difference in skill ranks between both), the one out of range loses the spellduel. If both becomes out of range between two Spellcraft checks (for example, one of the mages moved away or was teleported away), then the original spellcaster wins the spellduel.​