coup de grace too powerful

[Jeremy]

Nice idea.

Thanks for the clarification guys.

Trip or Bull Rush or Disarm is more likely to stop the Coup De Grace than just whacking him with your AofO hoping that it'll be enough to finish him.

Unless you wanna house rule a concentration check to line up your kill shot with people sticking war picks and greatswords into you... 8D

 

[kreynolds]

That's the way I always played it, but looking it up in the SRD does not seem to spell this out.

Even more importantly, playing it that way is flat out incorrect (barring house rules of course), and I found out the hard way. The trip, bull-rush, and disarm manuevers are definately the way to go if you are allowed an AoO.

 

[Dreaddisease]

I'm not upset about losing the wimp of a character. I think he'd rather be on the farm instead of where we were.

A 5 foot step can put you out of reach of the nmy most of the time, BTW.

I must debate you hong. In the middle of a 6 second round everybody acts. Yes the meat cleaver against the person in bed is almost a given, you could take 30 seconds sneaking up and take a full 6 seconds to make sure your going to hit. But a combat is very much different. Within the actual 2 seconds your not focused on dodging, blocking, thinking about whether to cast an extra spell or attack or run and about the other half a million things that could or will happen the idea of just doing double guaranteed damage with a fort save vs dmg dealt or die is a bit extreme in that short of time. Reality does not support that idea very well in my opinion.

I would be more open to the idea if it left the person open, like a -4 to AC or he could not move more than a single movement next round, or anything. I like the idea of taking the attack on the next round, even though it is a house rule.

 

[kreynolds]

I would be more open to the idea if it left the person open, like a -4 to AC or he could not move more than a single movement next round, or anything. I like the idea of taking the attack on the next round, even though it is a house rule.

So provoking an AoO from every single person within melee range and not being able to do anything else but take a 5-foot step isn't restrictive enough?

 

[Jeremy]

Reality does not support that idea very well in my opinion.

Heh. Reality does not support *D&D* very well. It's fun, not physics.

However, your ideas are all decent ideas for house rules, though making it take until your turn next round is probably the most accurate if you are trying to make it realistic. That way he can be grappled, tackled, the victim can be spirited away, etc. Might talk to your DM about making a future house rule.

Dying is part of D&D. Raise Dead and the more powerful versions can bring you back, or you can continue on as a new character which can be one of the most rewarding aspects of the game.

Just ask the players in the 25+ body count adventures how many memorable stories they have.

Anytime you can have a Best Death category comprised entirely from adventurers from a single adventure, you know you've got something memorable.

 

[hong]

I must debate you hong.

Exercise your force of will and control these base impulses.

In the middle of a 6 second round everybody acts. Yes the meat cleaver against the person in bed is almost a given, you could take 30 seconds sneaking up and take a full 6 seconds to make sure your going to hit. But a combat is very much different. Within the actual 2 seconds your not focused on dodging, blocking, thinking about whether to cast an extra spell or attack or run and about the other half a million things that could or will happen the idea of just doing double guaranteed damage with a fort save vs dmg dealt or die is a bit extreme in that short of time.

Then you perhaps have a faulty conceptualisation of D&D combat. 6 seconds is a LONG TIME when you're in melee. It's possible for trained boxers and martial artists to unleash a flurry of half a dozen blows in one second (although they may not be able to keep up that rate for long). When someone is helpless, which means they're unable to move to avoid your attacks, finding that chink in their armour is that much easier.

Furthermore, a CDG doesn't have to mean finding eyeslits, hitting the joints, or any such precision strikes; it's abstract. You can CDG someone by decapitating them with one mighty swing from a greatsword (a la Aragorn in FOTR), or by disemboweling them with an axe. It's quite possible to do this within the span of time of a single combat round, if you're willing to let your guard down. Hence the AoO.

And finally, remember we're not talking about commoners or 1HD warriors wielding daggers here; this is a demon with 10+ HD that knocked you off. Such a creature has combat skill to burn, and could quite concevably kill a helpless target in short order.

 

[Gromm]

6 seconds not enough time to kill someone?!
I can do it in one second. Give me a gun or a knife and I bet if you're sleeping and don't wake up you never will (well maybe for a second as you watch your arterial blood splash around and then lose consciousness).

CDG is very realistic. My beef would be with the sorceror who didn't take dispel magic and decided instead to hold you while you were 5' from a fricken demon. I can't fathom why he would do that, its basically guaranteeing your death.

 

[Dreaddisease]

One last debate for kreynolds. AoO is not enough. Say I was a cleric right behind you that had to cast a touch attack spell. With an AoO against the cleric he has a high possibility of loosing the spell. An AoO and the ability to go through with the action is much more powerful than an AoO and loosing the action.

Also I have a problem with a 2nd level spell guaranteeing someone's death is not what I call balanced.

As to whether I care if this char died or not or body count its really not that bad. Characters die and every combat can lead to a disasterous ending, blah blah blah preach it mama sob sob my char died I'm so upset. cry.... sniff

So anyways, thanks for the input.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Hmmm...

..if it´s about a 2nd level spell being a factor in certain death...

Ever been hit by a sleep spell and then be ground zero for a rock toppled on you from above by the fighter henchman of the same wizard who did that to you? 1st level spell, instant death...stuff like that happens. It´s about as fair as someone breaking your legs in real life and then, when they´re surrounded by the police, decide to throw you into the bay to eradicate you as witness before getting arrested...

 

[kreynolds]

One last debate for kreynolds.

So what part was the debate?