[cpu] Which chip should I get?

[drothgery]

The top end A64 X2s aren't really price-performance competitive with Core 2 Duos. The 3800 has the advantage of basically going against Pentium Ds, and so is probably the pick in its price range, and 4200 vs E6300 is probably the most competitive AMD gets vs. Core 2 Duo.

Basically, here's how the dual core desktop x86 chips break down (ignoring discontinued chips, like the 1 MB X 2 cache Athlon 64 X2s, and a lot of Pentium Ds)

(prices from newegg.com; cross-checked at TigerDirect; in US dollars; as of 9/9/2006)

~$100 Pentium D 805; cheapest dual core available, and overclocks well, but not all that fast at stock

~$125 Pentium D 915; see the 805, except that it runs cooler, but due to a higher FSB, isn't as overclockable

~$150 Pentium D 945, Athlon 64 X2 3800; Go AMD at this price point, unless you're planning on getting a Core 2 Duo capable motherboard with a P-D 945 and upgrading the CPU later

~$200 Athlon 64 X2 4200, Core 2 Duo E6300; generally rule of thumb is to go Core 2 Duo if you can afford to, though the performance case becomes stronger at higher speed grades

~$250 Athlon 64 X2 4600, Core 2 Duo E6400; the 6400 costs less and performs better

~$350 Core 2 Duo E6600; easily the best price-performcance CPU out there, but $350 is a lot to spend on a CPU; gamers would get more by spending an extra $100 on their video card than on their CPU

~$500 Core 2 Duo E6700; not as good of a value as the 6600, but it is faster; if you need the fastest non-crazy desktop CPU, this is what you get

~$600 Athlon 64 X2 5000; terrible value, stay away (AMD's list price is somewhat lower, but this is what they're actually selling for), the E6600 is always faster, and the E6400 sometimes is

~$800 Athlon 64 FX-62; fastest AMD desktop CPU, but also a bad value since the E6700 is always faster, and the E6600 usually is (again, AMD's list price is somewhat lower, but this is what they're actually selling for)

~$1000 Core 2 Extreme X6800; fastest desktop CPU, period, and has an unlocked multiplier, so it overclocks well; for overclockers with money to burn

 

[drothgery]

Have fun with figures in other parts of the system. Dump a hard drive. The E6600 is too good a bargain.

If he wants to maximize gaming performance, saving $300 on CPU and RAM (by going with an E6300 and DDR2 667) and spending half of what he saved on a better video card is going to result in better performance in virtually every game that exists, and cost less.

I mean, the absolute best value CPU right now is definitely the E6600. But at ~$350, it's also an expensive CPU, and almost all current games are limitted by the video card, not the CPU.

The absolute best value video card right now is a GeForce 7900 GS, which is ~$200. But until the 7900GS hit retail last week, the best value cards were often in the $300 range, and again that's a lot of money to be spending on a video card.

 

[Steel_Wind]

The problem I have with your argument is the suggestion that $350 is a "lot" to spend on a CPU. Grab a pen off your desk and drop it on the floor to see if your gravity is still working nearby.

If we were having this conversation two months ago, you would not have been saying that at all. At that point - 500-600 was a "lot" to spend on a CPU

A fourty to sixty percent price drop in cpus, and your trigger level of what it a "lot" to spend on a CPU drops by the same percentage?

Uhm... No.

As for video cards, value is illusory. You should buy what you need to play the games you want.

Seeing as this is ENWorld, my best guess of "games people want to play with their new computer" is NWN2.

And the answer to that question is: buy the most powerful GPU you can possibly afford. Get a 7950GX2 if you can - and two of em if you have a large LCD monitor. Sorry if that news is both unwelcome and unpleasant...

But it is accurate advice all the same.

 

[drothgery]

The problem I have with your argument is the suggestion that $350 is a "lot" to spend on a CPU. Grab a pen off your desk and drop it on the floor to see if your gravity is still working nearby.

If we were having this conversation two months ago, you would not have been saying that at all. At that point - 500-600 was a "lot" to spend on a CPU

Yes, I would have. It's why I was in no rush to upgrade my Pentium 4 to a dual-core box; Pentium Ds performed poorly (and were expensive until Intel slashed prices in the pre-Core 2 Duo launch runup), and A64 X2s were too expensive. That, and I've decided there's no point in trying to keep up with the GPU rat race when I do very little PC gaming, and I do travel occasionally, so I'm planning to get a notebook as my next main machine (though a real keyboard, mouse, and 20" widescreen LCD will be plugged into it most of the time).

Ever since AMD got seriously in the CPU market with the Athlon, $350+ desktop CPUs have been high-end CPUs. Sometimes there was good value there, but it's still a relatively high absolute cost when so little of what most people do in their normal day -- or even the most hardcore gaming -- will be noticeably slowed down by a lower midrange or better CPU.

 

[Mycanid]

Well, to me the whole question boils down to how much TheLe is willing to spend on a CPu NOW rather than what he SHOULD spend on one. If he has, say 180$ for a CPU then all these arguments are helpful, but not practical for where he is right now. (Please be assured I mean no offense to any posters thus far!)

So the question is : TheLe? How much does your budget allow for a cpu? Then we can go from there.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

The E6600 is available for much less than $449. You should be able to find it for $339.

I'm in Canada and haven't found one yet lower than 449. (Of course I haven't looked too hard, but I have checked Memory Express (Alberta and where I'm located) and Tiger Direct.ca (wherever they are) and they both have a list price of $449 for the E6600. I see you're posting from Toronto, so any suggestions on where I might find a better deal?

Strangely Tiger Direct shows the AMD 5000+ as being $863, while the Memory Epress site shows it as being $359.00. That's a pretty huge discrepency one way or the other. Looking around it looks like it's an error on the MemX site.... (but all their AMD chips seem pretty cheap really)

Edit: A little more looking around tells me that if I were to order from the States I would either pay no duty for the processor but would pay the GST, or 21% (or other) duty + GST.

 

[drothgery]

I'm in Canada and haven't found one yet lower than 449. (Of course I haven't looked too hard, but I have checked Memory Express (Alberta and where I'm located) and Tiger Direct.ca (wherever they are) and they both have a list price of $449 for the E6600. I see you're posting from Toronto, so any suggestions on where I might find a better deal?

I don't think he realized you're Canadian (all the other prices in this thread have been in US dollars, from US-based retailers, with no extra shipping and/or taxes for non-US customers included).

~$340 US -> ~$380 Canadian (according to xe.com) * 1.21 for GST = ~$460 Canadian
So $449 Canadian is actually cheaper than I'd expect.

 

[Steel_Wind]

When I am posting on a thread here, I post in US Dollars. Currency Exchange, PST + GST are in addition to that - (as local and state taxes would be in addition to that price for American readers). I do not know if the E6600 is manufactured in the States or not. If the country of origin is not part of NAFTA, CCRA imposes a 7% duty on it as a foreign mftrd computer/electronics component. My expectation is that this CPU is manufactured in America and there is no duty.

For the record, PC Village in Toronto has the E6600 for sale for $419CDN in the shop. Walk in the door at any one of seven locations in the city and just buy it. PST and GST are in addition to that, obviously, but that's it.

When you convert for currency exchange, that's about $30 CDN more than it would cost if you bought it from NewEgg - the largest US online retailer of computer parts - and assuming there is no duty or other handling charge applied at the border (if there is - it's actually cheaper at PC Village than it is at NewEgg).

In other words - that's a pretty small mark up for a modest brick and mortar operation and about what you would expect to pay.

Link is here

 

[drothgery]

When I am posting on a thread here, I post in US Dollars. Currency Exchange, PST + GST are in addition to that - (as local and state taxes would be in addition to that price for American readers). I do not know if the E6600 is manufactured in the States or not. If the country of origin is not part of NAFTA, there would be a 7% duty on a computer/electornics component. My expectation is that this CPU is manufactured in America and there is no duty.

Intel's got fabs all over the world, but most are in the US, including at least one of the high-volume 65nm fabs they make Core 2 Duos (and Core Duos and 900-series Pentium Ds) at. I'd wager that for tax reasons, most Intel chips shipped to Canada are made in the US (as they don't have any fabs in Canada or Mexico).

AMD's major fab is in Germany, though they've got another one in the US, but it's older and not used for current-gen CPUs. AMDs acquisition of Canadian-based ATi may cause further tax strangeness.

 

[TheLe]

Thanks for all the comments thus far. With all the data I am reading, I have changed my mind -- I am willing to spend a little more on processors.

I am willing to spend around $200 on a CPU (which will allow me to budget $75 for a Motherboard later).

I am not really concerned about RAM or VIDEO right now, as those are really dependent on the MOTHERBOARD. And the MOTHERBOARD is really dependent on the CPU. So once again, it comes down to the CPU choice.

Thanks to all your advice and some additional research, the Pentium D is no longer an option. The performance is great for overclocking, but the numbers are still not as good as true dual cores (pentium D's have no Hyperthreading). Every benchmark I have seen says that even the low end AMD X2 3800 outperforms the Pentium D.

So, I am now leaning towards an AMD X2, or an Intel Core 2.

For the X2, I would be looking at the mid level 4200 (2.2ghz) or 4400 (2.2ghz), probably the former since it lets me stay on budget, even though there is less L2 cache.

For the Core2, I am looking at the low level E6300 (1.8ghz) or E6400 (2.13 ghz). Once again, I would lean towards the former to save some money.

From what I read, even the low end Core2 E6300 (1.8ghz) beats the crap out of the AMDX2 4400 (2.2 ghz). Maybe it's because of the 2mb l2 cache per core on the Core2. I dunno. The benchmarks don't lie.

So that is what I am looking at.

Thoughts?

~Le