CR modification for Divine Rank 0?

[Shin Okada]

Deities and Demigods and SRD have rules regarding Divinity. But there is no rule or guideline for estimating a deity's CR. Or am I missing something?

It seems that "No fight against gods" were the basic design stance of 3.Xe. Still, something with Divine Rank 0 (Quasi-Deity or Hero-Deity) seems to be well within "challengeable" opponent.

In my understanding, someone with Divine Rank 0 will get,

1) Maximum hit points for each Hit Die.
2) (Possibly) Faster Speed.
3) (Possibly) Better Natural Armor (+13 or the NA bonus of the original race).
4) Deflection bonus to their AC equal to their Charisma bonus
5) Immunities (Transmutation, Energy Drain, Ability Drain, Ability Damage, Mind-Affecting Effects).
6) Damage Reduction 10/Epic
7) Fire Resistance 5
8) Spell Resistance 32
9) Cannot die from natural causes

That's all. Assuming this is a kind of template which can be applied only to someone with 20+ HDs, how much should be the CR modifier? Do yo think +1 to be reasonable?

 

[Runestar]

I guess the benefits of the template depends somewhat on the recipient. If the monster already has very high NA, decent sr, dr and resistances (basically any high-cr foe in the MM), then they would get less out of it than someone who did not possess any of them (like a human npc).

What are you applying it to?

 

[Shin Okada]

What are you applying it to?

A Titan. So his NA will not be improved, so as his SR. Also, he already has DR 15/Lawful which PCs rarely have right weapons ready.

 

[Runestar]

So it effectively gains an extra 70hp and +7 deflection AC.

The fire resistance is negligible, dr may or may not be an issue (depending on whether the PCs know to use align weapon), I really don't think much of the immunities since players generally don't favour ability damage, though it does show up once in a while).

Speed, sr and NA are moot.

I would say +1cr seems about right.

 

[Maldor]

SR +1
Hit pionts +1
DR +1
Immunitys +1
AC bounus +1
Always counts as a Natural 20 on attack, saves and skill rolls + 10

Divine rank +0 = CR +15

 

[Shin Okada]

SR +1
Always counts as a Natural 20 on attack, saves and skill rolls + 10

Divine Rank of 16+ is needed to gain that ability.

 

[Runestar]

Plus, for that cr+15, I might as well go with the paragon template, or use an elder titan instead.

 

[pawsplay]

I'm going to say +2 CR ("significant abilities") in most cases. Characters fighting such a titan would have to take into account the overlapping DR (if you don't have an epic lawful weapon, you're dealing with at least DR 10), and the extra hit points are fairly significant. Still, the immunities are the real game changer. Weapons of wounding, prayer and so forth are ineffective, and at high levels, PCs rely on exotic attacks to take out high hp opponents. For instance, once you whittle a titan down to 100 hp, a single power word kill could take it out. A wizard could spam hold monster and quickened hold monster each round, which would have about a 5% chance each round of holding him (5% chance of the titan rolling a 1, twice, half chance of overcoming SR for a high level wizard). And don't underestimate the utility of a very fast movement rate.

 

[Runestar]

And don't underestimate the utility of a very fast movement rate.

Except that the titan already moves faster than the 50ft movement being a quasi-deity grants.

I hesitate to put it at +2cr because my ballpark is "Does a divine rank 0 titan roughly equal 2 titans in terms of challenge?" While all the immunities are nice to have, I was working on the assumption that they all are unlikely to come into play in the same battle (does your party so happen to favour polymorph, mind-affecting, lv-drain and stat damaging attacks?). If so, then maybe cr+2 may be apt.

 

[pawsplay]

Except that the titan already moves faster than the 50ft movement being a quasi-deity grants.

A Huge biped gets a movement rate of 100 feet.

I hesitate to put it at +2cr because my ballpark is "Does a divine rank 0 titan roughly equal 2 titans in terms of challenge?" While all the immunities are nice to have, I was working on the assumption that they all are unlikely to come into play in the same battle (does your party so happen to favour polymorph, mind-affecting, lv-drain and stat damaging attacks?). If so, then maybe cr+2 may be apt.

If they don't, if they favor damage-causing attacks, then the DR is formidable. Many archers will do inadequate damage unless they have access to an epic bow, and Power Attack fighters will be at a mathematical disadvantage. You could make a case for CR +1, but in my view, the improved DR and the extra hit points does make them the equivalent of two titans, if you resort to damage dealing. They would gain lesser advantages against energy-dealing attacks, but they still have their SR. Unless your party includes a lot of draconic bloodline sorcerers with Su attacks or something similar, this template is going to change the fight a lot.