D&D 4E Crafting Magic Items in 4E - How Would YOU Do It?

[CleverNickName]

Like the post title suggests...how would you handle the rules for crafting magic items in the new 4E system?

The rules for magic item creation under the 3.x rules never made a whole lot of sense to me...sure, potions and scrolls were straightforward enough, but the rules for making weapons and armor didn't make much sense and were difficult to work with (how does a character with no ranks in Craft know how to forge a blade?) The rules for wondrous items (and worse, the rules for custom magic items not listed in the DMG) were even worse. Rules for making artifacts were missing altogether, stamped with a boring "not suitable for mortals" tag.

The proliferation of magic items under the 3rd Edition rules was quite a problem, especially at higher levels. I've read that magic items will play a smaller role in the new system, so this will probably have an impact on the way that PCs can craft them.

What would I like to see?

1. I would like all magic item creation feats to be combined into a single talent tree. A character who chooses this talent tree would be able to make anything from potions to ioun stones, so long as (s)he meets the required caster level.

(Using ranks in Craft always made more sense to me than using feats, anyway. But since skills are getting quite an overhaul, I'm not sure how this could be done.)

2. I would like this talent tree to be accessable to any character class, not merely the spellcasters. The men who forged legendary swords of fantasy fiction novels weren't ex-wizards who took metal shop classes, and didn't dabble in the Dark Arts...they were just superb craftsmen.

3. I would like the time required to create a magic item to be a fixed number, not based on the cost of the item. I always thought this was sloppy, not to mention unrealistic. A year and a half to make a vorpal weapon? If a smith took longer than a week to make a single sword, he would be out of work.

4. Even if it is an epic extension only available to 30th level characters, I would like at least something that explains how artifacts can be created and why.

Thoughts?

 

[frankthedm]

Ritual
Time: One week per 2 magic item levels
Cost: 2 magic items of the same level or greater as the one to be created.

A year and a half to make a vorpal weapon? If a smith took longer than a week to make a single sword, he would be out of work.

Tell that to the folks who still make katanas

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

(how does a character with no ranks in Craft know how to forge a blade?)

3e rules did not require the PCs to forge the blade themselves, they just enchant a masterwork blade they purchased.

The proliferation of magic items under the 3rd Edition rules was quite a problem, especially at higher levels. I've read that magic items will play a smaller role in the new system, so this will probably have an impact on the way that PCs can craft them.

I don't think the new rules will do anything to prevent magic item proliferation. As has been stated many times before, 4e is supposedly being designed so that PCs will not have to have magic weapon, armor, ring, cloak, bracers etc. in order to survive as they progress through levels, as was the case in the base assumption of 3e. There can still be tons of magic items in the game, it just isn't needed

What would I like to see?

1. I would like all magic item creation feats to be combined into a single talent tree. A character who chooses this talent tree would be able to make anything from potions to ioun stones, so long as (s)he meets the required caster level.

(Using ranks in Craft always made more sense to me than using feats, anyway. But since skills are getting quite an overhaul, I'm not sure how this could be done.)

Personally I don't like this idea. Why should somebody know who knows how to craft a potion also know how to enchant a suit of armor just because they are higher level.

2. I would like this talent tree to be accessable to any character class, not merely the spellcasters. The men who forged legendary swords of fantasy fiction novels weren't ex-wizards who took metal shop classes, and didn't dabble in the Dark Arts...they were just superb craftsmen.

I'm of mixed feelings on this. These aren't mundane "legendary" swords forged by ordinary people, they are magic swords. That said, weapons and armor should be able to be created by a fighter who devotes himself to the crafting through some form of ritual. Again, where I have issue with a single Talent Tree is that I don't see why a Fighter should be able to create a magic ring as well as a magic sword.

3. I would like the time required to create a magic item to be a fixed number, not based on the cost of the item. I always thought this was sloppy, not to mention unrealistic. A year and a half to make a vorpal weapon? If a smith took longer than a week to make a single sword, he would be out of work.

I don't want a fixed number. More time needed to make a more powerful item makes sense to me. A sword like a Holy Avenger should take a long time to create. These are potent weapons that are not created and churned out by a smith looking to make a profit, but by dedicated people for a specific purpose. I think price may not be the best way to determine the amount of time needed, and the lengths can get a bit ridiculous sometimes, but it should take a lot longer to create a Luck Blade than it does to create an ordinary +1 sword.

4. Even if it is an epic extension only available to 30th level characters, I would like at least something that explains how artifacts can be created and why.

Thoughts?

I would rather they not bother with rules for artifacts. To make them be items of such power means they will be beyond the playable abilities of the PCs. Don't bother me with rules they will probably never be able to use. I suppose if they ever issue rules for divine level playing beyond 30th level, they could include that information in there and it wouldn't bother me at all since I most likely wouldn't purchase those rules, but please don't include it in the core books.

 

[Mirtek]

Ritual
Time: One week per 2 magic item levels
Cost: 2 magic items of the same level or greater as the one to be created.

So who would ever create all the magic items the PCs are supposed to unearth in the ruins of the ancient empires if crafting them is that expensive?

Maybe all the empires have fallen into ruins because it's casters were so stupid to ruin their empire with magic item creation

 

[Mistwell]

Ritual
Time: One week per 2 magic item levels
Cost: 2 magic items of the same level or greater as the one to be created.

So in other words, no magic items, given your system would not allow for them to exist in the first place?

 

[frankthedm]

So who would ever create all the magic items the PCs are supposed to unearth in the ruins of the ancient empires if crafting them is that expensive?

The ancient empires knew better ways to make magic items and took their secrets with them. Nowadays folks who want a specific item either have to find it, barter for it or accept diminishing returns.

 

[elrobey]

Creating a permanent magic item should work much like the "item familiar" rules from Unearthed Arcana:

First, you must establish, by taking certain feats/talents/skills, the ability to create magic items.

Then, you can create magic items all you like, by essentially transferring your own feats/talents/skills into the item.

So, if you are fighter and want to create a "sword of spring attacking", you would take the "create magic arms and armor" feat (and perhaps also establish a certain skill level in appropriate Craft), and you could then transfer your own "spring attack" feat into the sword. Voila, sword of spring attacking.

Possible sidebar rule: If you are using a magic item that you yourself have created, you enjoy some sort of power boost on top of what you have transferred; but if the item is destroyed, you not only lose the power boost, but suffer an additional permanent penalty. For example, when a dark lord creates a One Ring To Rule Them All, the dark lord gets a power boost, that he enjoys even when he loses the ring; but when the ring is destroyed, the power boost goes away and the dark lord suffers additional penalties besides.

Another possible sidebar rule: In some situations, a magic item can be created spontaneously by a sort of "epic osmosis". For example, the sword of a legendary hero might over the years spontaneously acquire some of the legendary hero's mojo.

 

[kennew142]

I'm just hoping they do away with the ridiculous exponential increase in cost based on the plus of the weapon. A +2 sword is better than a +1 sword, but four times as much? nine times as much for a +3?

I believe the pricing of magic items is the major cause of unrealistic wealth levels in 3e D&D.

 

[TerraDave]

I don't know. But I want to see what they come up with. Definately something that needs to change.

 

[TerraDave]

Note on frank's system: it basically works the same as implied in the current rules: you sell two items at half price and then buy the one you want at full price.