Unearthed Arcana Crawford On Lots Of Stuff! Release Tempo, Video Games, OGL, Conventions, Unearthed Arcana, 2018, Tia

Crawford confirms the brilliant strategy of the D&D team. Thanks for posting the highlights Morrus. Sales and fans returning to D&D are proof that they are doing something right.

Bravo!

 

[Rygar]

Not the same sort of thing, but the thing you're looking for, I think.

The "hints" from the already published adventures are how the baddies are "going elsewhere" after a failure to try again. Tiamat's plan for Krynn didn't work , so she tries on Toril. Same with Tharizdun, who failed on Oerth, and is trying on Toril. I think this might lead up to some crazy Planescape or Spelljammer style realm-hopping adventure.

That said, I'm not sure how OotA fits into that idea. But we haven't seen it yet.

I actually find this *extremely* interesting and I think it is a strong indicator of future content.

See, the key here is, Takhisis didn't fail on Krynn, Takhisis died/i] on Krynn. For him to make the comment about Tiamat's plan for Krynn not working, it means that they're acknowledging the events in War of Souls. Not only are they acknowledging it, they're using it as some piece of lore.

This is interesting because there's no reason to invoke Dragonlance's continuity with 5th edition's Tiamat as they've always been separate. So they are making a conscious choice to combine them when they didn't have to. The only reason to do this is: The plan exists to use both Takhisis and Dragonlance in future products.

Otherwise, there's no reason to bother with Takhisis and Dragonlance. There's no reason to mention either one if you plan to leave Dragonlance in a vault.

So if they're hiding hints, I think we just received a pretty big one.

 

[Hussar]

I love the idea of mashups.

How about Kalak, the Sorcerer King, just before dying under whatshisface's spear, triggers a ritual that sends him back in time to the Green Age. And the Green Age just happens to be Faerun. He pops up somewhere on the Sword Coast and starts doing his thing. Gathering followers, growing in power. Bringing Defiling magic to an earlier age to attain godhood and then go back to his own time to kick ass, destroying much of Faerun in the process. Maybe Athas is just Faerun a million years in the future? Why not? How would the various groups in Faerun react to all this information? Some try to stop him, some try to use him, and chaos ensues.

Sounds like a pretty cool AP to me.

Acerak's Tomb of Horrors has already been shunted off of Greyhawk and into its own Demi-plane. So, why can't it, and he, manifest on Faerun? Seems a pretty easy thing to do, and doesn't even violate canon. Now you can bring in all sorts of undead and trap goodness as Acerak's influence spreads throughout a large area, turning every nook and cranny into deadly traps and hazards. The PC's must journey to the centre of the incursion and enact a ritual banishing Acerak's demi-plane back to the Astral plane.

Not seeing the problem.

To me, it's like the approach they are taking with the new Star Wars movies. The past will be mined for ideas and inspiration, but, they are not locked into previous lore and are free to tweak/change what they want. Best of both worlds IMO.

 

[Mercurius]

Wow, tough crowd. WotC really can't say anything without people tearing it apart and/or assuming the worst.

I've been wanting to know more about future plans and skeptical of the possible strategy of just two story arc books a year, but the more I hear from WotC, even just the snippets from Mearls and Crawford, the more I'm excited. I think they're taking a wise approach: not announcing too soon, a slow start while they form a strong core game, with intimations of larger (and more prolific, but not gluttonous) plans down the road.

I was worried that D&D the TTRPG was just a place-holder for the D&D brand, which would focus more on video games and other media formats, but I don't think this is the case. From everything we've heard, D&D the TTRPG is doing very well, better than expected. In other words, the game is alive and well and we've got a lot to look forward to.

People can nitpick and complain that WotC isn't doing it How I Think Things Should Be Done, but I think everyone can be happy that the game itself is not just surviving, but thriving, and that there's much to look forward to. I know that I am.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

Wow, tough crowd. WotC really can't say anything without people tearing it apart and/or assuming the worst.

Mercurius meet Internet. Internet, Mercurius. Enjoy.

 

[Mad Zagyg]

Not seeing the problem.

The problem is that not everyone wants to use the Forgotten Realms setting. Some people, in fact, really dislike the Forgotten Realms setting. Some people, like me, have a consistently running, 32-year-old Greyhawk campaign. Some people want to have their campaigns set in the bleak world of Dark Sun... not the Anauroch desert. People grow to love these worlds as if they were their favorite fiction or movie.

To me, it's like the approach they are taking with the new Star Wars movies. The past will be mined for ideas and inspiration, but, they are not locked into previous lore and are free to tweak/change what they want. Best of both worlds IMO.

How did you feel about Greedo shooting first?

 

[Mistwell]

How did you feel about Greedo shooting first?

Nobody is altering what already happened retroactively, it's all new stories. New stuff can happen, in unexpected ways. Someone from place X can go to place Y, even if they have never been to place Y before. Place X is not harmed by that person going to place Y. Nobody is saying that person is retroactively now from place Y instead of place X.

 

[Mad Zagyg]

Nobody is altering what already happened retroactively, it's all new stories. New stuff can happen, in unexpected ways. Someone from place X can go to place Y, even if they have never been to place Y before. Place X is not harmed by that person going to place Y. Nobody is saying that person is retroactively now from place Y instead of place X.

That's true. But it still comes at the expense of place X. Meaning, place X receives no further detail or "action" because place Y gets 100% of the attention. Why not mix it up and have this adventure path from this world, and the next adventure path from that world? That's how you properly represent a multiverse. It's really not very "multiversal" to have all of the classic villains from other worlds continually showing up in the Forgotten Realms. It seems way less "cool mashup" and much more like "bad sequel" to me.

 

[Mistwell]

That's true. But it still comes at the expense of place X. Meaning, place X receives no further detail or "action" because place Y gets 100% of the attention.

But that was going to happen anyway. Let's bottom line it, my preferred setting is Greyhawk as well. I am not a big fan of FR. But, Greyhawk doesn't even rank in the top four of settings right now for WOTC's surveys. Greyhawk isn't going to get any further detail, at least not in the foreseeable future. Even if they moved off FR, Greyhawk still wouldn't be the setting getting the attention. So all the attention of FR isn't detracting from attention on Greyhawk. It is, possibly, detracting from attention on Eberron and Dark Sun and Ravenloft, but not Greyhawk.

So the best we Greyhawk fans are going to get right now is seeing some iconic elements of Greyhawk developed in ways that allow those things to travel to another setting, like FR. Which is something at least.

Why not mix it up and have this adventure path from this world, and the next adventure path from that world? That's how you properly represent a multiverse. It's really not very "multiversal" to have all of the classic villains from other worlds continually showing up in the Forgotten Realms. It seems way less "cool mashup" and much more like "bad sequel" to me.

Because even if they do that, Greyhawk still doesn't rank well enough to be in that mix. You'd just be shuffling one setting you don't play in, for another setting you don't play in. With a mashup, you have the best chance of at least some elements of Greyhawk being developed more. And I know you fear those elements will be screwed up - but the risk of that isn't any more or less than it would be if they were focusing on Greyhawk exclusively. We can only hope they do it well. And if they don't - well, at least it was just a few elements of Greyhawk they messed up rather than the whole thing.

To me, it has potential for a cool mashup. I see no reason to go in assuming a bad sequel, when we have not even seen it yet. Why not be optimistic, or at least cautiously neutral, rather than repeatedly assuming the worst and telling others it's going to be bad?

 

[Hussar]

The problem is that not everyone wants to use the Forgotten Realms setting. Some people, in fact, really dislike the Forgotten Realms setting. Some people, like me, have a consistently running, 32-year-old Greyhawk campaign. Some people want to have their campaigns set in the bleak world of Dark Sun... not the Anauroch desert. People grow to love these worlds as if they were their favorite fiction or movie.



How did you feel about Greedo shooting first?

Then some people aren't the target audience for these supplements. That's always going to happen.

What should WOTC do? Cater to the vast majority of D&D gamers who actually do play in Forgotten Realms (when you consider the numbers for Adventurers League, LFR, and the popularity of previous AP's) or cater to a 40+ year old gamer who's campaign setting hasn't had any published material in twenty years?

Yes, I get that some people would love to have a new Dark Sun adventure. Cool. I do get that. But, at some point, the realisation has to set in that it's just not going to happen. At least, not for quite a while.

At least this way, you can mine Rage of Demons for material for your Greyhawk game. It's not like there's no Underdark in Greyhawk. It's not like there's this massive difference between FR and Greyhawk drow that you can't convert one to the other.

One thing Paizo proved very well is that you can take AP's and reflavor them for a lot of different settings.

As far as Greedo shooting first, I think that's a perfect example of nerd-rage over nothing. Who cares? It really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. It was a throw away scene in the original movies and its a throw away scene in the remakes. It in no way actually affects the plot of the story, so, I really couldn't care.

 

[Dire Bare]

The problem is that not everyone wants to use the Forgotten Realms setting. Some people, in fact, really dislike the Forgotten Realms setting. Some people, like me, have a consistently running, 32-year-old Greyhawk campaign. Some people want to have their campaigns set in the bleak world of Dark Sun... not the Anauroch desert. People grow to love these worlds as if they were their favorite fiction or movie.

How did you feel about Greedo shooting first?

I've seen this complaint before, that WotC shouldn't focus on the Realms because not *everyone* is a fan of the Realms. It's a weak argument that is also very myopic and a bit selfish.

Despite all the nerdrage expressed on internet forums and even in brick-and-mortar gameshops across the developed world . . . at the end of the day the Forgotten Realms is far and away WotC's most popular setting. They would be fools to NOT focus on FR during the first "days" of the new edition. If they choose to focus on different settings or mix it up a bit, they'd please the three fans of "Classic Setting X" (I exaggerate, but the point remains) but ultimately lose sales and lose progress towards the growth of the game.

WotC has stated multiple times that they DO have plans to revisit some classic settings, but not until after they have spent some time solidifying the core of the new game with plenty of support for the most popular setting. And, IMO, that's the right way to handle it.

Who shot first? Greedo or Han? Like Hussar, I could effing care less. When the "special editions" came out back in the day, I didn't even notice until some of my friends who are more prone to pointless nerdrage than I pointed it out to me. I didn't care then, I don't care now. I marvel that anyone actually does care, it's a mindset that is foreign to me.

I'm the same way with D&D. All the anti-Realms griping from one section of the outraged fanbase, and the griping from Realms fans about changes to *their* setting over the years . . . I just keep trucking on enjoying the novels, the comics, the rpg books, and soon . . . a movie!

 

[Hussar]

It's funny. I've never really been a big fan of published settings of any stripe. But, I used to borrow from whatever setting book caught my fancy all the time. Faiths and Avatars for Forgotten Realms saw liberal use in my 2e games. Dragon lance modules have seen use in just about every edition I've played. Scarred Lands material features in all my homebrews. And I've used any number of Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Eberon, various other, modules in any setting over the years.

I'm frankly baffled by this idea that the settings are so different that if you put a "For Specific Setting" tag on the product that some people won't even consider buying it.

Like I said, in the latter days of 3.5, when Paizo was producing AP's for 3.5 in Dungeon magazine, they have several conversion documents right there for transplanting the AP's into various settings. Heck, Savage Tide Adventure Path uses Isle of Dread (a Known Worlds property) and places it firmly in a Greyhawk setting. And they were applauded for it.

I find this whole thing rather tiresome and very, very self serving.

 

[Mistwell]

Then some people aren't the target audience for these supplements. That's always going to happen.

What should WOTC do? Cater to the vast majority of D&D gamers who actually do play in Forgotten Realms (when you consider the numbers for Adventurers League, LFR, and the popularity of previous AP's) or cater to a 40+ year old gamer who's campaign setting hasn't had any published material in twenty years?

OK to be fair, that's not accurate. Greyhawk has had published material over the past 20 years. Paizo in fact was writing adventures set in Greyhawk for Dungeon magazine. Savage Tide for example is Greyhawk, and it's from 9 years ago.

 

[Hussar]

OK to be fair, that's not accurate. Greyhawk has had published material over the past 20 years. Paizo in fact was writing adventures set in Greyhawk for Dungeon magazine. Savage Tide for example is Greyhawk, and it's from 9 years ago.

Heh, Savage Tide took one of the hallmark adventures of the Known World and mashed it into Greyhawk. And Paizo was largely applauded for doing so. It was a pretty popular AP.

But, apparently, taking Greyhawk elements and putting them into FR is a bad thing?

And, fair enough, I should have said ten years.

 

[garnuk]

There is no doubt about it. The multiverse idea was absolutely a classic D&D concept.

And yet, we refer to The Temple of Elemental Evil, The Lost Caverns of Tsojocanth, The Tomb of Horrors, Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure, White Plume Mountain, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, Scourge of the Slavelords, Queen of Spiders, etc as classic Greyhawk adventures. We don't refer to them as classic multiverse adventurers. They are things that are wrapped up in the fabric of what makes Greyhawk so awesome. You CAN make sense of Mordenkainen journeying to Toril and roasting hot dogs over a campfire with Elminster. But Mordenkainen belongs to Greyhawk just like Gandalf belongs to Middle Earth. Just like Elminster belongs to the Forgotten Realms. What we've seen so far isn't really a rich exploration of D&D's many multiverses. What we've seen is D&D's rich multiverses being imported into the Forgotten Realms. I know that's an overstatement, because so far we've really only seen Elemental Evil assimilated. My point is in specific reference to Crawford's mention that we might see the same sort of thing with future products.

I'm just saying that I disapprove of that path. Hopefully my worries are unfounded and we'll have an adventure path set in Greyhawk.

When people talk about the TV Show Sliders, they say it takes place on "Earth". Not on "Parallel Universes", even though thats what it is.

 

[JeffB]

Apparently Hasbro/Wizards are intent on bringing the Global Branding Experience to the fictional denizens/entities in their respective fictional worlds too.

I hope hat guy on Jury Duty will be back in time to make sure the townsfolk's contract is OK with Legal. Otherwise the next AP may get pushed back.


or something

 

[Mercurius]

As someone who uses a homebrew setting exclusively, I have no issue with official adventures being set in the Forgotten Realms or any other setting. It is relatively easy to adapt it to my own setting if I so choose, whether porting in fluff or replacing it with my own stuff. In fact, I prefer products I buy to have setting-specific fluff as it brings it alive in a way that is more evocative and fun to read.

That said, I'd like to see WotC have a section in each adventure as to how to adapt it to different settings, or maybe a downloadable pdf, such "Running Princes of the Apocalypse in other settings." Maybe even having separate one or two page documents for the different major settings (other than the Realms).

 

[MerricB]

That said, I'd like to see WotC have a section in each adventure as to how to adapt it to different settings, or maybe a downloadable pdf, such "Running Princes of the Apocalypse in other settings." Maybe even having separate one or two page documents for the different major settings (other than the Realms).

Would that be anything similar to the section they *did* include in Princes of the Apocalypse on adapting it to other settings?

 

[Mercurius]

Would that be anything similar to the section they *did* include in Princes of the Apocalypse on adapting it to other settings?

Oh yeah, that. Whoops. Clearly PotA has mainly just sat on my shelf since buying it. Carry on doing what you're doing, WotC.

 

[Mistwell]

Heh, Savage Tide took one of the hallmark adventures of the Known World and mashed it into Greyhawk. And Paizo was largely applauded for doing so. It was a pretty popular AP.

But, apparently, taking Greyhawk elements and putting them into FR is a bad thing?

And, fair enough, I should have said ten years.

I'm running Savage Tides right now for 5e. It's going well. My party just finished the thieves guild in Sassarine and is off to watery adventures...

Still, no update in the past 8ish years isn't itself an indication it should not see any updates. After all, Planescape hasn't seen updates in a longer period of time, but apparently it ranked high in WOTC's survey of settings and is more likely to see an update.

 

[Hussar]

I'm running Savage Tides right now for 5e. It's going well. My party just finished the thieves guild in Sassarine and is off to watery adventures...

Still, no update in the past 8ish years isn't itself an indication it should not see any updates. After all, Planescape hasn't seen updates in a longer period of time, but apparently it ranked high in WOTC's survey of settings and is more likely to see an update.

I ran it too. Loved it. Thought it was a very well done AP.

But, that's beside the point that I was responding to. The original point was that somehow drawing elements from other settings and putting them in Forgotten Realms is disrespectful of fans of the original settings and a bad thing. I'm really not sure why.