Crazy spell chain for evil villian

[Jack Simth]

I'm going to let it slide for my own campaign, but I was wondering if this functions by the rules:

Take a living subject, cast Flesh to Stone on it until it sticks.
Put the resulting statue over a very carefully prepared mould, inside a funnel.
Cast Transmute Stone to Mud on the statue.
Make sure all the mud goes into the mould, and then Dispel the Transmute Stone to Mud (or counter with Transmute Mud to Stone....)
Remove the resulting statue from the mould.
Cast Stone to Flesh (or Break Enchantment) on the statue.

Why? Well, Flesh To Stone specifies that any changes made to the statue are reflected in the live person when it's undone. Transmute Rock To Mud specifies that getting rid of the spell restores it's substance, but not necessarily form. So, in theory, after, we have a person totally reshaped into the whatever form was chosen in the mould... that can't be dispelled, and can't be killed with Break Enchantment (Flesh to Stone effect already gone, Rock to Mud non-instant and already gone as well). Theoretically, this means that you could use it for long-term magic examined impersonations (after a few days, all the Dim auras from the spells that are gone fade completely, and short of a Spot check that beats the Disguise check, you can't know) or general torture (reshape someone into something else... limited pretty much only by volume and your twisted imagination).

Two basic questions:
1) Does this actually work that way, RAW?
2) If it does, is there any RAW way to undo it?

 

[FireLance]

I wouldn't allow it to work because of the first two sentences in the spell description of transmute rock to mud:

This spell turns natural, uncut or unworked rock of any sort into an equal volume of mud. Magical stone is not affected by the spell.

A magically petrified creature wouldn't qualify as "natural, uncut or unworked rock" to me.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'm going to let it slide for my own campaign, but I was wondering if this functions by the rules:

Take a living subject, cast Flesh to Stone on it until it sticks.
Put the resulting statue over a very carefully prepared mould, inside a funnel.
Cast Transmute Stone to Mud on the statue.
Make sure all the mud goes into the mould, and then Dispel the Transmute Stone to Mud (or counter with Transmute Mud to Stone....)
Remove the resulting statue from the mould.
Cast Stone to Flesh (or Break Enchantment) on the statue.

Why? Well, Flesh To Stone specifies that any changes made to the statue are reflected in the live person when it's undone. Transmute Rock To Mud specifies that getting rid of the spell restores it's substance, but not necessarily form. So, in theory, after, we have a person totally reshaped into the whatever form was chosen in the mould... that can't be dispelled, and can't be killed with Break Enchantment (Flesh to Stone effect already gone, Rock to Mud non-instant and already gone as well). Theoretically, this means that you could use it for long-term magic examined impersonations (after a few days, all the Dim auras from the spells that are gone fade completely, and short of a Spot check that beats the Disguise check, you can't know) or general torture (reshape someone into something else... limited pretty much only by volume and your twisted imagination).

Two basic questions:
1) Does this actually work that way, RAW?
2) If it does, is there any RAW way to undo it?

The bit of stone that was once a finger, where is it now? The bit of stone that was once a heart, where is it now? The bit of stone that was once an eye, where is it now?

Changes made to the statue are reflected in the live person when it's undone. The changes made amount to taking all the bits of a person and then randomly scrambling them around into the shape of another person without regard to whether the nose bits end up as nose bits or arm bits. Casting Break Enchantment would, in my opinion, result in a suddenly very gory mess appearing in the shape of a person.

 

[BSF]

I'm not sure there is anything RAW that supports this one way or another. But it is funny.

I could see a villain with a lot of time doing the following.
Capture subject
Eventualy Flesh to Stone subject
Use statue to create mould of subject
transmute some normal rocks into mud, pour into mould, transmute mud into rock
You now have a fake statue that looks like the real one
Set out as 'bait'
Create a second fake statue
Take real statue, transmute rock to mud and pour into a brick mould
Setup a pedastal for your fake statue using the bricks from the former subject in 'trophy room'
Allow adventurers to recover fake statue #1
Adventurers try to restore subject by casting Stone to Flesh on fake statue #1
Adventurers are surprised with lifeless lump of flesh
Adventurers wise up, scry to find subject
Scrying results in a picture of statue on brick pedastal in a 'trophy room'
Adventurers work to get to 'trophy room' to recover subject
Adventurers use Flesh to Stone on fake statue #2 and still get a lifeless lump of flesh
Adventurers may, or may not eventually figure out that bricks are what happened to subject

Much wackiness ensues. I may have to use this idea so thanks for the inspiration.

 

[BSF]

I wouldn't allow it to work because of the first two sentences in the spell description of transmute rock to mud:A magically petrified creature wouldn't qualify as "natural, uncut or unworked rock" to me.

Oh sure, find a reason why it won't work right off the bat.

 

[Jack Simth]

Fair enough. Would it make a difference if Fabricate was used, rather than Transmute Rock to Mud?

Edit: Ah, nevermind - still treated as a creature (Petrified status) and thus not a valid target. Hmm.....

Edit 2: Ah, perhaps stone Shape; doesn't seem to have the "not a creature" restriction.... but that's only 3rd, and doesn't permit fine detail. Hmph.

 

[Dirigible]

When the rules stop you doing something as gruesomly sadistic as this, the rules need to be ignored

 

[TheGogmagog]

Fair enough. Would it make a difference if Fabricate was used, rather than Transmute Rock to Mud?

Edit: Ah, nevermind - still treated as a creature (Petrified status) and thus not a valid target. Hmm.....

Edit 2: Ah, perhaps stone Shape; doesn't seem to have the "not a creature" restriction.... but that's only 3rd, and doesn't permit fine detail. Hmph.

Polymorph any object could do it within the RAW. There could be duration issues, but that's not important for this, as the intention is to turn them back to flesh anyway.

I believe a wish or miracle would be required to undo it.

As for the brick - fake statue. Clever Idea, but it would take a clever DM to describe it in such a way that it could be solved. We scry our stoned buddy - You are shown a round brick pedistal about 3' x 3' (continue to describe the pedistal)... and on it is a statue identical to the one you have already found.

 

[Jack Simth]

Well, the key step is changing the shape that must be impossible to undo - with a duration attached, it's very difficult to say that the stone produced by Polymorph any Object is anything other than magic stone, and if using it to change the shape of the resulting rock, then you have a dispellable change in the form.

I suppose you might be able to use PaO for the statue to mud phase.....

 

[just__al]

I'm not sure there is anything RAW that supports this one way or another. But it is funny.

I could see a villain with a lot of time doing the following.
Capture subject
Eventualy Flesh to Stone subject
Use statue to create mould of subject
transmute some normal rocks into mud, pour into mould, transmute mud into rock
You now have a fake statue that looks like the real one
Set out as 'bait'
Create a second fake statue
Take real statue, transmute rock to mud and pour into a brick mould
Setup a pedastal for your fake statue using the bricks from the former subject in 'trophy room'
Allow adventurers to recover fake statue #1
Adventurers try to restore subject by casting Stone to Flesh on fake statue #1
Adventurers are surprised with lifeless lump of flesh
Adventurers wise up, scry to find subject
Scrying results in a picture of statue on brick pedastal in a 'trophy room'
Adventurers work to get to 'trophy room' to recover subject
Adventurers use Flesh to Stone on fake statue #2 and still get a lifeless lump of flesh
Adventurers may, or may not eventually figure out that bricks are what happened to subject

Much wackiness ensues. I may have to use this idea so thanks for the inspiration.

Wow, simply evil. Not just from a DM standpoint but from an NPC standpoint. I love it. You are truly a RATBASTARD. Consider this Yoinked.