D&D 5E Create a 5e Psion

[FallenRX]

I know a lot of people want PSPs, but the only version of this that didn't really suck was 2E... and that only kinda sucked. I know a lot of people want psionics to not interact with spellcasting, but when they did this in 3E, it created a massive power imbalance, since it could bypass pretty much every kind of non-psionic defense.

I've been a proponent of using the Warlock as the framework for a Psion since 5E came out, since it already fits into the existing rules setup. Patron is replaced by primary discipline, with pact boon providing a secondary discipline. Spells would be greater powers, with invocations being lesser powers.

This is one of the reason i enjoy kibbles psion class because, it just kinda works that way, but uses a different spell system

 

[TwoSix]

This is one of the reason i enjoy kibbles psion class because, it just kinda works that way, but uses a different spell system

I like Kibble's Psion also, but if you're someone who feels the class is too experimental, Laserllama's Psion is a bit closer to default 5e standards.

The Psion Class by laserllama

The Psion Class by laserllama - Created with GM Binder.

www.gmbinder.com

 

[Yaarel]

I really don't think we should keep the tradition of Psionics doing explicitly spell-like things. Storm magic just is not Psionics, I'm sorry. Psionics may sometimes involve storm aesthetics, but explicit storm magic, or naughty word like transport via plants, these really make psionics an Aberrant Mind with almost no difference in fluff or mechanics.

If you look at the 3e Psion class, you can see that the Psion really is spells.

That said. There are things that the Psion class needs to be able to do that 5e does not yet have a spell for.

Also, not every 5e spell has a spell description that feels psionic in flavor. A spell can feel nonpsionic if it is too complex and fiddly (Prismatic Spray). A psionic spell effect needs to be a salient somewhat simple and coherent concept that it easy to visualize as a whole. Similarly, a spell that explicitly relies on the power of some other creature to do the effect (Planar Ally) or gets too distracted with ritually handling a object (Magic Jar) feels too external to be ones own mind doing it.

The psionic spell lists also avoid themes of undead and necrotic. Despite the fact that a ghost is a kind of disembodied powerful psionic mind, the deathly negativity is like veil distinguishing it from a living mind.

I probably agree with you about Transport via Plants feeling less psionically flavorful, in the sense that it is somewhat complex and fiddly. But I included it in the first pass to see how many 5e earth-plant spells there are.

Relatedly all elemental spells are in the same category. If one feels comfortable with a "pyrokineticist" "fire starter" character, then an other player will feel comfortable with an "aerokineticist" "X-man Storm" character, or a "geokineticist". Indeed, 3e Pathfinder has all of these element-manipulating psionicists, as class options.

Personally, I prefer all elemental magic − fire, air, water, earth, and plant − to split away from the "psionic" power source and instead be part of the "primal" power source. Psionic and primal relate to each other and are even both mindful powers. But the elemental themes of primal can be kept distinct enough from psionic.

All said. The 3e Psion is a spellcaster choosing known spells. But each discipline needs a curated spell list that feels psionic and behaves in ways one expects a psionic effect to behave.

 

[Yaarel]

I like Kibble's Psion also, but if you're someone who feels the class is too experimental, Laserllama's Psion is a bit closer to default 5e standards.

KibblesTasty Psion
LaserLlama Psion

My main difficulty with the Kibbles Psion is its lack of always-on cantrips. Is it actually a half-caster that lacks access to high-slot spell effects? That would be a huge problem.

The LaserLlama Psion with both cantrips and high slot-9 spells might be closer to the 3e Psion that is relevant here. But part of its text is missing, being placed to the right off the edge of the pdf page. It is unclear what mechanics it has that can cast the high-slot spells.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I really don't think we should keep the tradition of Psionics doing explicitly spell-like things. Storm magic just is not Psionics, I'm sorry. Psionics may sometimes involve storm aesthetics, but explicit storm magic, or naughty word like transport via plants, these really make psionics an Aberrant Mind with almost no difference in fluff or mechanics.

That is why I was very careful to keep my telekinesis example to movement of matter. Transformation of matter, imbuing of matter with independent sentience, and creation of magical force are all fairly overtly magical effects and not telekinetic ones.

 

[TwoSix]

My main difficulty with the Kibbles Psion is its lack of always-on cantrips.

The LaserLlama Psion with both cantrips and high slot-9 spells might be closer to the 3e Psion that is relevant here. But part of its text is missing, being placed to the right off the edge of the pdf page. It is unclear what mechanics it has that can cast the high-slot spells.

I'm pretty sure that in Kibble's Psion, each discipline's action is meant to be used as the primary at-will attack, much like a cantrip.

GMBinder is notoriously finicky about browsers, trying the link in another browser may work better. If it doesn't, the PDF is here. The Laserllama Psion gets 6+ level spells like a Warlock, gaining a new spell usable once/LR at levels 11/13/15/17, drawn from the Psion spell list.

 

[Yaarel]

I'm pretty sure that in Kibble's Psion, each discipline's action is meant to be used as the primary at-will attack, much like a cantrip.

GMBinder is notoriously finicky about browsers, trying the link in another browser may work better. If it doesn't, the PDF is here. The Laserllama Psion gets 6+ level spells like a Warlock, gaining a new spell usable once/LR at levels 11/13/15/17, drawn from the Psion spell list.

I wrote this later, but the KibbleTasty Psion looks like a half-caster. At least at first glance, I dont see any effect that is equivalent to a high-slot spell effect.

 

[TwoSix]

I wrote this later, but the KibbleTasty Psion looks like a half-caster. At least at first glance, I dont see any effect that is equivalent to a high-slot spell effect.

The innate psionics ability functions like the Warlock ability, gaining one new spell per LR at 11/13/15/17. Additionally, you can spend extra power points to upcast spells from your discipline if desired.

 

[Yaarel]

The innate psionics ability functions like the Warlock ability, gaining one new spell per LR at 11/13/15/17. Additionally, you can spend extra power points to upcast spells from your discipline if desired.

Give me an example from the KibbleTasty text that is equivalent to a "17", namely a slot-9 spell.



By the way, from your link, I was able to switch the pdf from "original" to "simplified" format. It is a bit messy, but I am able to read all of the text (I think).

 

[TwoSix]

Give me an example from the KibbleTasty text that is equivalent to a "17", namely a slot-9 spell.

The Psion can learn either Astral Projection, Foresight, Gate, Power Word Kill, or Time Stop at level 17. From the Psion Spell List on page 24 of the document.