Creating An OGC Setting

[schporto]

I forgot to mention. I will be willing to help. But the discussion about gods and planes of existence doesn't interest me too much. Just not my cup o' tea. I prefer the lower level stuff. To that end... Who rules the world?
Anybody who wants to?
The council of mages?
The clerics and their worshipers?
The military (if we are gearing up for war)?
I could create some characters (not nessecarily stated but more history) for this once we have ideas of who rules I think.
-cpd

 

[Turanil]

Religions: My Suggestion

In this world, the deities (including demon princes and archomentals) rule the world through their agents (priests and others) and their churches. There is, as a result, many struggles of cults angainst churches, of evil gods against good ones, etc. See, the traditional stuff. (BTW: the gods are closely based on that of Greyhawk - default PHB 3e deities, but with different or generic names, like "God of the Sun" for Pelor.)

However, at some point, some people rebelled against the traditional control of religions and deities over all living beings. These were:

1) Wizards. Originally, all magic was wielded by priests. But some individuals finally got the mean to obtain (steal?) magic/spells without the gods, and thus arcane spellcasters appeared. Nowadays they are tolerated in some places (especially if they worship a deity overseeing magic) but feared and hunted down in other places.

2) The Scarlet Brotherhood. (Needs another name, but you see the idea.) Several monastery (usually well hidden) of psionic-users and monks, who draw their supernatural powers from within through arduous training. They are evil, organized into a brotherhood, and of course are opposed to the gods. However, there have been a few renegades among their order, who rebelled against their evil ways and betrayed; as such, some independant psions/monks of different alignments exist, but are very rare and don't have any organizations of their own (they usually are wanderers who flee persecutions from the brotherhood). The Scarlet Brotherhood is shunned by the churches because of the danger it represents rather than for dogma reasons.

3) The Blasphemy. Two or three centuries ago, a priest of some deity abandoned his faith when he got the idea to become a deity of his own rather than follow/serve one. This character became the most powerful mortal in the world (min. 30th level epic character). He is seen as evil (whatever may be his real alignment) and an abomination by all churches, who would like to destroy him. However, in response he corrupted many priests who got the idea like him to become their own deities (taking the appropriate prestige class). Hence, this is seen as the worlst heresy and blasphemy and is universally reviled by all religions and cults. Witch-hunters are sent after such blasphemers, yet this doesn't prevent powerful priests to betray their faith and try to become gods of their own... Just to note: currently nobody has actually become a god, even while the original priest to do that may be close to it...

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Other than that, I suggest to include a Knight Templars order, Church Knights of some LG religion, with many fortresses, crusaders, etc., and whose elite knights are paladins.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

I forgot to mention. I will be willing to help. But the discussion about gods and planes of existence doesn't interest me too much. Just not my cup o' tea. I prefer the lower level stuff. To that end... Who rules the world?

Since we are trying to have lots of small kingdoms, no single person or group does. Even that "hostile alliances" scenario I suggested doesn't change that - you can have countries of vastly different outlooks and political structures that have nothing in common than they are tenatively allied to the same side. After all, war makes for strange bedfellows - consider the fact that in WWII, the USA and the Sovjet Union were allied to each other!

There might be some sort of "central military command" on each side that has in theory the right to command any military forces on their own side, but how that would work out in practice remains to be seen, since the war has not started yet. And the individual member countries would probably resist any foreign influence in their countries that doesn't have to do with military matters - and even command over "their" military forces might be nothing more than a polite fiction to keep up appearances.

The respective leaders of the alliances would be powerful, to be sure - but they are far from absolute rulers and will have to sacrifice effectivity to political expediency in many cases...

 

[Turanil]

BTW: should we indicate a place called "The Great Spire", then just indicate this is the place of a great city of adventure? Describe the relations to other places, and that's all. This "spire" would be a point where DMs can place Ptolus (by Monte Cook) if they ever wish to buy the book and use it.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Religions: My Suggestion

In this world, the deities (including demon princes and archomentals) rule the world through their agents (priests and others) and their churches. There is, as a result, many struggles of cults angainst churches, of evil gods against good ones, etc. See, the traditional stuff. (BTW: the gods are closely based on that of Greyhawk - default PHB 3e deities, but with different or generic names, like "God of the Sun" for Pelor.)

Not a good idea, IMO - I think we can be generic without being derivative...

I'd prefer it if we come up with a new pantheon of our own.

2) The Scarlet Brotherhood. (Needs another name, but you see the idea.) Several monastery (usually well hidden) of psionic-users and monks, who draw their supernatural powers from within through arduous training. They are evil, organized into a brotherhood, and of course are opposed to the gods.

I'm not very familiar with Greyhawk. But I think that if the gods directly rule the world, then opposing them does not have to be evil - in fact, striving to overthrow the tyranny of the gods might be a noble, if doomed cause.

And I always had a thing for gnostics...

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

BTW: should we indicate a place called "The Great Spire", then just indicate this is the place of a great city of adventure? Describe the relations to other places, and that's all. This "spire" would be a point where DMs can place Ptolus (by Monte Cook) if they ever wish to buy the book and use it.

I'm against this as well. After all, there is nothing that prevents a DM from simply replacing a city on the map with a city from any other published setting or book, and I'd prefer this to be a standalone setting instead of something that has tie-ins to existing products. Especially to ones I don't own.

In fact, this brings me to another issue. I know that we could, in theory, use any other OGL material for this setting. But I think in practice it would be better to keep third-party material that's not from the SRD to a minimum, especially since IIRC you have to correctly attribute said material to the respective publication - and it is entirely possible that people who are unexperienced with the legal issues of the Open Gaming Licence will accidentally use words and material that actually falls under the "Product Identity" of that publisher.

So I propose the following:

The Wiki should not use any OGL material that is not either in the SRD or originally written for the Wiki unless the publisher of that material explicitly gave his permission, and an electronic copy (or a link to it, if it was given on a message board) of the permission must be given to the maintainer of the Wiki. This will make sure that we don't get into any legal troubles if such material is used incorrectly, since the relevant authors are aware of the use of the material from the beginning and can immediately give us notice if something was done wrong - and it will also hopefully generate more good will for our project.

 

[schporto]

One more question. Is this setting to be static or dynamic? I mean is the idea to create the setting at a point and spend time fleshing out more and more and more bits? Or is the idea to move the setting along providing events and outcomes? Or to even create the setting at various time points?
Thanks.
-cpd

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

One more question. Is this setting to be static or dynamic? I mean is the idea to create the setting at a point and spend time fleshing out more and more and more bits? Or is the idea to move the setting along providing events and outcomes? Or to even create the setting at various time points?
Thanks.
-cpd

I think the best idea woud be to make the setting static, but offering dynamic possibilities. I don't think that we are able to provide the time and effort to introduce a true "metaplot". But we could offer an explanation of what is likely going to happen in the future of an area if the PCs are not getting involved in a significant way. This allows every DM to tailor the progression of future events as he wants to his individual campaign.

 

[Yair]

I've thought about all this some more, and here is what I came up with:
...
- "Above" the Material Plane are the "Higher Realms" - the Astral Plane and the various planes and demiplanes floating in it.

Yep.

- The planes and demiplanes are all sapient to some degree, and most are composed of a multitude of individual intelligences. A plane that has a strong "dominant personality" is often called a "deity", but there are many planes where no single personality predominates. Stil, even in these cases the compound intelligences must have something in common - like a common philosophy - or else the plane would fracture over time.

Sounds good.

- Planes are able to grant mortals divine spellcasting powers, as long as the convictions of the mortal strongly resonate with the plane. If the cleric becomes truly powerful, he can become the "living avatar" of a plane and eventually merge with it while still alive, becoming the dominant personality of the plane in the process.

I like it, but would make things more mystical.
I tend to see all Outsiders as essentially manifestations of the plane. As finite entities, they are by necessity a mere fraction of the plane's infinite wisdom and might, yet unlike the plane they can take action in the world (change the plane or enter the mortal world), being in-time and concrete. They are the ways an atemporal, infinite, perhaps omnipotent being interacts with a finite, temporal, existence.
Under this interpertation, any prestige class that changes the Cleric - or anyone else - to an Outsider aligned with a particular plane essentially merges it with the plane. If the character is powerful (high-level) enough, she may become the most powerful manifestation of the plane, and much of the plane's actions (including the creation of other outsiders) will fall in line. No matter how high level, however, the character is finite while the plane (god) is infinite and as such the character represents only an insignificant portion of the god's being; she will never become a god.

- Ordinarily, the souls of the dead float around in a special section of the Astral Plane for some time (a couple of decades, usually). They are then reincarnated into the Material Plane.

I'm not sure if we want to have reincarnation as our main theological motiff. It certainly doesn't coincide with true resurrection that can bring back those dead for 200 years (or more, with Epic levels).
I suggest having the souls "meld" with the plane-which-is-a-god, leading a non-material existence in union with god yet being distinct so they could be resurrected.

- To become a wizard, you must incorporate parts of various planes or demiplanes into your own soul during wizardly initiation. Normally, wizards avoid tying themselves to the bigger planes (unless they want to become mystic theurges or the like) and swallow parts of many different demiplanes and planes to make them less dependent on a single source. Casting arcane spells draws on the power of these planes, but unlike clerics, they don't ask for these powers, they take it. The planes and demiplanes tolerate this (and some even encourage this) because the rituals used during the spellcasting process increase their own power by small amounts.

I would differentiate a demiplane from a plane in that the demipane is an artificial consturct brone out of arcane incantations, devoid of all sentience or power but that of the wizard's soul.
A wizard that also follows a clerical path shackles his to a true Plane, which may indeed strengthen the plane by somehow "adding" his demiplane to it.
I would not make all wizards thieves of divine power, however. That should be reserved to specific individuals, not two whole classes.

- Incorporating parts of planes through wizardly initiation means that your soul won't enter the normal cycle of reincarnation when you die. Instead, you will become a demiplane upon your death whose size depends on your power in life. The typical apprentice will only become a tiny demiplane which will soon be absorbed by bigger demiplanes and plans, and whose intelligence will have little say in the larger compound intelligence. Archwizards, on the other hand, will become huge demiplanes, and should they become part of a compound intelligence plane, they have a good chance of becoming the dominant personality thanks to their power.

Yes, I think this idea can be seriously expanded with medieval concepts of microcosms and modern psychology. A powerful wizard will become a god in his own little world on his death, a weak one will be condemned to eternally relive his worst nightmares.

- Sorcerors come into being when a fractured plane or demiplane becomes tangled up with their souls when they are reincarnated into their current bodies. They, too, will become demiplanes when they die, but unlike wizards, they did not choose to do this.

Sounds fitting.

How does all this sound?

Very good.

I'll write more later, now I have to do laundary.

Yair

 

[Yair]

TEMPEST

Tagline: "A Storm is brewing on the Horizon"

What do you all think?

I think this is a good idea (and I like the name). It creates a possibility for tension on all scales, at the DMs control.
I would seek an "evil version" of each of these two world powers, with hidden black resources and apalling secrets. All optional, so the DM can choose what to take and what not to.
This suggests two regions to focus on, IMO: two to four states in the northeastern continent, where skirmishes abound and can escalate into open warfare; and one or two states in the buffer zone between the two world powres, trying to live through the storm.

I am not sure how this coincides with more regular adventures, however. Like a monster attacking a village, dungeoncrawling, and so on.

I am willing to contribute them for this OGC setting. Send me an email ( dominique.crouzet@libertysurf.fr ) so I can send you back the maps in high resolutions (and smaller) JPG files.

Great.

By the way, I wont contribute them as "OGC", since OGC relates to game rules, and I find strange the idea of an OGC art. However, I will release the three maps as copyrights free clip-arts.

Anything can be released as OGC, ""Open Game Content" means the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor, and means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes Product Identity. "
But copyrights free clip-art works just as well.

I also prefer to keep the traditional way of gaining divine spells. Plus with such classes as shamans and various prestige classes, it's easy to have standard deities-priests along animists and what not.

Agreed.

I forgot to mention. I will be willing to help. But the discussion about gods and planes of existence doesn't interest me too much. Just not my cup o' tea. I prefer the lower level stuff. To that end... Who rules the world?

I'll join the chorus of "no one", with the caveat of an optional Conspiracy Theory thrown in for good measure. I'm thinking of rival factions of Mind-Flayer rip-offs and liches, but hey, I'm strange that way.
I agree we need to do most work on lower-level stuff, but I'm not quite ready to plunge there yet without a broader picture.

BTW: should we indicate a place called "The Great Spire", then just indicate this is the place of a great city of adventure? Describe the relations to other places, and that's all. This "spire" would be a point where DMs can place Ptolus (by Monte Cook) if they ever wish to buy the book and use it.

I would disagree with Jurgen, and say to include it. It wouldn't hurt leaving a plothook for the DM to hang a Ptolus or Banewarrens adventure on.
Generally speaking, I think we should not rely on non-SRD sources, but in this case leaving a mysterious Spire somewhere isn't exactly a bad thing.

I'm not very familiar with Greyhawk. But I think that if the gods directly rule the world, then opposing them does not have to be evil - in fact, striving to overthrow the tyranny of the gods might be a noble, if doomed cause.

Would you still think that if you were a cleric of one

The Wiki should not use any OGL material that is not either in the SRD or originally written for the Wiki unless the publisher of that material explicitly gave his permission, and an electronic copy (or a link to it, if it was given on a message board) of the permission must be given to the maintainer of the Wiki. This will make sure that we don't get into any legal troubles if such material is used incorrectly, since the relevant authors are aware of the use of the material from the beginning and can immediately give us notice if something was done wrong - and it will also hopefully generate more good will for our project.

I initially didn't think we should be so extreme, but on second thought I agree. We should largely limit ourselves to our own creations. If there is something that's appealing and appropriate somewhere, like a class or feat that's just right, we can always ask the publisher if we can use it.

One more question. Is this setting to be static or dynamic? I mean is the idea to create the setting at a point and spend time fleshing out more and more and more bits? Or is the idea to move the setting along providing events and outcomes? Or to even create the setting at various time points?

I'd say static. Having to build up the current situation should be difficult enough.
After some development I could see a "Future Timeline" as Jurgen suggests, however.

If anyone wishes to join the Wiki, just give me your email (or email me with it) and I'll send you an invitation. I'll be very happy to do so

Yair