D&D 3E/3.5 Creature Catalog 3.5 overhaul project - part 1
- Thread starter BOZ
- Start date
Krishnath
First Post
Of course we are willing to help, just send me a file with the dragons (doc format preferebly) and I'll start converting them to 3.5, there's not really that much of a difference between 3E entries, and 3.5 entries for monsters.
Also, dragons are better in 3.5, more in line with classic litterature regarding their senses (think Smaug of the hobbit), and their treasure entry is triple standard, yes TRIPLE standard, that's three times what is normal.
Also, dragons are better in 3.5, more in line with classic litterature regarding their senses (think Smaug of the hobbit), and their treasure entry is triple standard, yes TRIPLE standard, that's three times what is normal.
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
3.5 Upgrade Guidelines
3.5 Upgrade Guidelines
These are the guidelines I am establishing for reviewing each CC monster, starting this week. Please look them over and tell me if something needs to be changed or added.
Creature Type
Some monsters will need to have their Creature type and subtypes reassigned. For example:
All Beasts will now be either Animals or Magical Beasts, as that type has been eliminated. If the former Beast had an intelligence of more than 2, had any supernatural or spell-like abilities, or had a bizarre appearance or habits, it should probably be a Magical Beast. If it is basically just a slightly unusual animal, then it should be an Animal. Dinosaurs and the prehistoric animals are now Animals rather than Beasts.
The Shapechanger type has also been eliminated; figure out which creature type the former Shapechanger most resembles in its natural form, and give it that type with the Shapechanger subtype. For example, doppelgangers are now considered as Monstrous Humanoid (Shapechanger).
The Outsider type has been most altered of the remaining creature types. All Outsiders now gain either the Extraplanar or Native subtype, depending on their origin. Some Outsiders may work better with another creature type and the Extraplanar subtype, but I think most Outsiders will stay Outsiders. Note that some other non-Outsider creatures may gain the Extraplanar subtype, the way the retriever and devourer have, and all Elementals are also Extraplanar now.
Celestials and fiends now have special subtypes depending on their race, such as Angel, Archon, Baatezu, Eladrin, Guardinal, and Tanar’ri. Presumably, creatures like Yugoloths and Rilmani would also have their own subtype, but we have yet to see what that would be.
Oozes have lost their bonus hit points; to make up for this, their Con scores have increased. Constructs, however, now have bonus hit points - see the MM page 307 for more info.
Note that the Type and Subtype-related traits are no longer spelled out with each individual monster; they are now spelled out clearly in the back of the MM, so we will no longer need to paste them onto every monster listing even though they will still be listed under its Special Qualities.
Size:
If you have it, you may want to consult page 296 in the MM for suggestions on how the creature’s size may alter the CR, ability scores, and damage from natural attacks. These things may change, if you can suggest a different value and cite examples from the MM that make sense for the monster in question. The HD and size will probably not be changing, unless you can make a good case by citing examples of other monsters in the new MM that have changed - and even then, don’t count on it!
Speed:
Not much needs to be changed here. Each monster’s land speed is also listed in squares - simply 1 square per 5 feet of its normal speed. For example, a human would be listed as 30 ft. (6 squares).
Armor Class:
Not much needs to be changed here. Each monster should have its touch and flat-footed AC listed now.
Base Attack/Grapple:
For most of the CC’s monsters, this line will need to be added or at least checked. Base Attack, of course, is calculated from the monster’s Type, Hit Dice, and Size. I am not certain how to calculate the Grapple bonus, so you will have to help me on that one.
Attack and Full Attack:
The old Attacks and Damage lines need to be completely rewritten. They have been combined into the Full Attack line (also accounting for any Crits that are not simply 20/x2), and the Attack line has been added for any attack actions the creature may make when it is not using the full-attack action. If the 3E version looked like this:
* Attacks: Bite +6 melee
* Damage: Bite 2d6+2 melee
it would now look like this:
* Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (2d6+2)
Special Attacks and Special Qualities:
Not much may have changed here, although some text blocks may need to be rewritten to be more like the abilities found in the new MM. Some things we do need to note:
Damage Reduction has been altered. Any creature that has it already (or any ability such as Half Damage From Slashing or Piercing) will probably have to have it altered to conform to the new standards. Most monsters do not have a DR above 15, though the overall effect of it has been altered - most DR is not simply overcome by magic weapons! I will need to consult the monster’s original entry, and compare it to similar monsters with DR to decide how its DR should protect it. I am also considering (for the sake of preserving the true value of magic weapons of greater than +1 value) keeping DRs against magic to be specific if the original text stated a +2 or +3 weapon was needed to hit. For example, if the monster in previous editions could only be hit by +2 weapons or silver, I might now give it DR 10/magic (+2) or silver.
Many spells have changed. Please be aware of this when reviewing and assigning spell-like abilities to a monster - I’m not going to list these changes here!
All saving throw DC’s should be checked with the information on MM page 300. I will fully admit that I did not always know which stat applied to the DC!
Creatures that had Blindsight may now have Blindsight or Blindsense. Not that any creature that has no eyes, or should be able to “see” without its eyes, should have one of these qualities.
Skills:
The assigning of skills points has changed significantly and been simplified, and now fills a formula, thus:
(X + Int modifier, minimum 1) * (HD+3)
Now, all monsters will have at least 3 skill points - except for mindless creatures. As an example, a magical beast with an Int of 16 and 6 HD will now have 45 skill points - (2+5)*9.
X = the following number, based on creature type: Outsider = 8; Dragon and Fey = 6; Undead = 4; Aberration, Animal, Elemental, Giant, Humanoid (classless), Magical Beast, and Monstrous Humanoid = 2. Also, note that Constructs, Oozes, Plants, and Vermin will be 2 if they are not mindless.
New Skills & Changes:
Alchemy is now Craft (alchemy)
Animal Empathy no longer exists; is now only a class feature for Ranger and Druid
Innuendo has been merged into Bluff
Intuit Direction has been merged into Survival
Perform has been altered somewhat; be aware of the changes for anything that would have Perform as a skill
Pick Pocket is now Sleight of Hand
Read Lips has been merged into Spot
Ride is no longer limited to one type of mount
Scry no longer exists; I’m not quite sure what was done to it
Wilderness Lore is now Survival
Feats:
All creatures get at least one feat now, except for Vermin, Oozes, and Constructs, although they can still have bonus feats. Creatures start with 1 feat, plus 1 more for every 3 Hit Dice it has - in other words, a monster with 6 HD would now have 3 feats. This means some monsters we update will gain extra feats, and some may lose some - but I don’t know about that yet for certain. At the moment, please note that CC monsters will only have feats from either the PHB or MM.
Several new feats have been added to the PHB (many of which may not be all that useful to monsters), most of them skill buffs. These include the following (all are +2 to each skill):
Acrobatic (Jump, Tumble)
Agile (Balance, Escape Artist)
Animal Affinity (Handle Animal, Ride)
Athletic (Climb, Swim)
Deceitful (Disguise, Forgery)
Deft Hands (Sleight of Hand, Use Rope)
Diligent (Appraise, Decipher Script)
Investigator (Gather Information, Search)
Magical Aptitude (Spellcraft, Use Magic Device)
Negotiator (Diplomacy, Sense Motive)
Nimble Fingers (Disable Device, Open Locks)
Persuasive (Bluff, Intimidate)
Self Sufficient (Heal, Survival)
Stealthy (Hide, Move Silently)
Other new feats:
Augment Summoning (requires Spell Focus - Conjuration) - Grants +4 to summoned creatures Str and Con
Improved Feint (requires Combat Expertise) - allows a feint in combat as a move action
Diehard (requires Endurance) - you remain conscious even if below 0 hp
Eschew Materials - cast spells without material components
Improved Counterspell
Improved Grapple (requires Improved Unarmed Strike) - +4 bonus on grapple checks, and you provoke no AoO
Snatch Arrows (requires Improved Unarmed Strike) - catch a deflected ranged attack
Natural Spell - druids can cast spells in wild shape form
Manyshot (requires Rapid Shot, Dex 17) - can shoot more than one arrow simultaneously)
Improved Precise Shot (requires Precise Shot, Dex 19) - ignores any partial cover or concealment
Improved Overrun (requires Power Attack) - +4 bonus to overrun, no AoO
Improved Shield Bash (requires Shield Proficiency) - retain shield bonus to AC when shield bashing
Tower Shield Proficiency (requires Shield Proficiency) - no armor check penalty on attack rolls
Greater Spell Focus - stacks an extra +1 if you have Spell Focus
Greater Spell Penetration - +4 to defeat SR
Two-Weapon Defense (requires Two-Weapon Fighting) - off-hand weapon grants +1 shield bonus to AC
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (requires Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, BAB+11, Dex 19) - gain third off-hand attack
Greater Weapon Focus (requires Weapon Focus with weapon, Ftr level 8) - +2 on attack rolls with selected weapon
Greater Weapon Specialization (requires Greater Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization with weapon, Ftr level 12) - +4 to damage with selected weapon
Widen Spell - doubles spell’s area
Other changes:
Ambidexterity has been incorporated into Two-Weapon Fighting and no longer exists on its own
Expertise is now Combat Expertise
Weapon Finesse no longer applies to specific weapons or attack forms, and now applies to all of the creature’s applicable attacks
Sunder is now Improved Sunder
Feats in the MM:
Control Shape (for infected lycanthropes only)
Ability Focus - adds +2 to the DC for a specified attack
Awesome Blow (uh huh huh uhuh, OK, I just had to laugh at the name)
Craft Construct (monsters probably won’t have this feat though, but this allows someone to create golems and automatons)
Empower Spell-Like Ability
Flyby Attack
Hover
Improved Natural Armor
Improved Natural Attack
Multiattack
Multiweapon Fighting
Quicken Spell-Like Ability
Snatch
Wingover
Space/Reach:
Not much needs to be changed here. Just make sure the entry conforms to this information based on Size (unless there’s a good reason for it not to):
Fine: ½ ft / 0 ft
Diminutive: 1 ft / 0 ft
Tiny:2 ½ ft / 0 ft
Small: 5 ft / 5 ft
Medium:5 ft / 5ft
Large: 10 ft / 10 ft (5 ft if long)
Huge: 15 ft / 15 ft (10 ft if long)
Gargantuan: 20 ft / 20 ft (15 ft if long)
Colossal: 30 ft or more / 30 ft or more (20 ft or more if long)
Environment:
This is just Climate/Terrain renamed. The only likely change here will be that if the creature has the Extraplanar subtype, its home plane needs to be listed in this space.
Treasure, Alignment, and Advancement:
There will probably be little or no changes involved in these spaces, but as always be on the lookout just in case there needs to be.
Challenge Rating:
It doesn’t hurt to suggest a new CR. If you wish to recalculate it, please share with me your findings, and how you came to them.
Level Adjustment:
I’ll be honest with you: at the moment, I have no idea how to calculate this! If you know, you’ll have to share with me so that I can learn!
Monster’s Description and Combat Sections
Most of this will not change at all. I may remove or add to certain sections of its description as I see fit, if I think it will help the monster’s usefulness.
Each monster in the new MM has an italicized one-paragraph description that the DM can read to the players - I want this on the CC too, and I want you to help me write it!
The “Characters” section for each potential playable PC race will either need to be written or rewritten, using those in the MM as an example.
There will be no Tactics Round By Round section on the CC - although I may decide to include it if you write it for me. I am terrible at tactics, and you would laugh at me if I tried to write that myself.
I have heard that the Construction rules and costs for Constructs have changed; anyone care to enlighten me on what this entails?
That is all for now; this guide will be updated as you address new issues for me.
3.5 Upgrade Guidelines
These are the guidelines I am establishing for reviewing each CC monster, starting this week. Please look them over and tell me if something needs to be changed or added.
Creature Type
Some monsters will need to have their Creature type and subtypes reassigned. For example:
All Beasts will now be either Animals or Magical Beasts, as that type has been eliminated. If the former Beast had an intelligence of more than 2, had any supernatural or spell-like abilities, or had a bizarre appearance or habits, it should probably be a Magical Beast. If it is basically just a slightly unusual animal, then it should be an Animal. Dinosaurs and the prehistoric animals are now Animals rather than Beasts.
The Shapechanger type has also been eliminated; figure out which creature type the former Shapechanger most resembles in its natural form, and give it that type with the Shapechanger subtype. For example, doppelgangers are now considered as Monstrous Humanoid (Shapechanger).
The Outsider type has been most altered of the remaining creature types. All Outsiders now gain either the Extraplanar or Native subtype, depending on their origin. Some Outsiders may work better with another creature type and the Extraplanar subtype, but I think most Outsiders will stay Outsiders. Note that some other non-Outsider creatures may gain the Extraplanar subtype, the way the retriever and devourer have, and all Elementals are also Extraplanar now.
Celestials and fiends now have special subtypes depending on their race, such as Angel, Archon, Baatezu, Eladrin, Guardinal, and Tanar’ri. Presumably, creatures like Yugoloths and Rilmani would also have their own subtype, but we have yet to see what that would be.
Oozes have lost their bonus hit points; to make up for this, their Con scores have increased. Constructs, however, now have bonus hit points - see the MM page 307 for more info.
Note that the Type and Subtype-related traits are no longer spelled out with each individual monster; they are now spelled out clearly in the back of the MM, so we will no longer need to paste them onto every monster listing even though they will still be listed under its Special Qualities.
Size:
If you have it, you may want to consult page 296 in the MM for suggestions on how the creature’s size may alter the CR, ability scores, and damage from natural attacks. These things may change, if you can suggest a different value and cite examples from the MM that make sense for the monster in question. The HD and size will probably not be changing, unless you can make a good case by citing examples of other monsters in the new MM that have changed - and even then, don’t count on it!
Speed:
Not much needs to be changed here. Each monster’s land speed is also listed in squares - simply 1 square per 5 feet of its normal speed. For example, a human would be listed as 30 ft. (6 squares).
Armor Class:
Not much needs to be changed here. Each monster should have its touch and flat-footed AC listed now.
Base Attack/Grapple:
For most of the CC’s monsters, this line will need to be added or at least checked. Base Attack, of course, is calculated from the monster’s Type, Hit Dice, and Size. I am not certain how to calculate the Grapple bonus, so you will have to help me on that one.
Attack and Full Attack:
The old Attacks and Damage lines need to be completely rewritten. They have been combined into the Full Attack line (also accounting for any Crits that are not simply 20/x2), and the Attack line has been added for any attack actions the creature may make when it is not using the full-attack action. If the 3E version looked like this:
* Attacks: Bite +6 melee
* Damage: Bite 2d6+2 melee
it would now look like this:
* Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (2d6+2)
Special Attacks and Special Qualities:
Not much may have changed here, although some text blocks may need to be rewritten to be more like the abilities found in the new MM. Some things we do need to note:
Damage Reduction has been altered. Any creature that has it already (or any ability such as Half Damage From Slashing or Piercing) will probably have to have it altered to conform to the new standards. Most monsters do not have a DR above 15, though the overall effect of it has been altered - most DR is not simply overcome by magic weapons! I will need to consult the monster’s original entry, and compare it to similar monsters with DR to decide how its DR should protect it. I am also considering (for the sake of preserving the true value of magic weapons of greater than +1 value) keeping DRs against magic to be specific if the original text stated a +2 or +3 weapon was needed to hit. For example, if the monster in previous editions could only be hit by +2 weapons or silver, I might now give it DR 10/magic (+2) or silver.
Many spells have changed. Please be aware of this when reviewing and assigning spell-like abilities to a monster - I’m not going to list these changes here!
All saving throw DC’s should be checked with the information on MM page 300. I will fully admit that I did not always know which stat applied to the DC!
Creatures that had Blindsight may now have Blindsight or Blindsense. Not that any creature that has no eyes, or should be able to “see” without its eyes, should have one of these qualities.
Skills:
The assigning of skills points has changed significantly and been simplified, and now fills a formula, thus:
(X + Int modifier, minimum 1) * (HD+3)
Now, all monsters will have at least 3 skill points - except for mindless creatures. As an example, a magical beast with an Int of 16 and 6 HD will now have 45 skill points - (2+5)*9.
X = the following number, based on creature type: Outsider = 8; Dragon and Fey = 6; Undead = 4; Aberration, Animal, Elemental, Giant, Humanoid (classless), Magical Beast, and Monstrous Humanoid = 2. Also, note that Constructs, Oozes, Plants, and Vermin will be 2 if they are not mindless.
New Skills & Changes:
Alchemy is now Craft (alchemy)
Animal Empathy no longer exists; is now only a class feature for Ranger and Druid
Innuendo has been merged into Bluff
Intuit Direction has been merged into Survival
Perform has been altered somewhat; be aware of the changes for anything that would have Perform as a skill
Pick Pocket is now Sleight of Hand
Read Lips has been merged into Spot
Ride is no longer limited to one type of mount
Scry no longer exists; I’m not quite sure what was done to it
Wilderness Lore is now Survival
Feats:
All creatures get at least one feat now, except for Vermin, Oozes, and Constructs, although they can still have bonus feats. Creatures start with 1 feat, plus 1 more for every 3 Hit Dice it has - in other words, a monster with 6 HD would now have 3 feats. This means some monsters we update will gain extra feats, and some may lose some - but I don’t know about that yet for certain. At the moment, please note that CC monsters will only have feats from either the PHB or MM.
Several new feats have been added to the PHB (many of which may not be all that useful to monsters), most of them skill buffs. These include the following (all are +2 to each skill):
Acrobatic (Jump, Tumble)
Agile (Balance, Escape Artist)
Animal Affinity (Handle Animal, Ride)
Athletic (Climb, Swim)
Deceitful (Disguise, Forgery)
Deft Hands (Sleight of Hand, Use Rope)
Diligent (Appraise, Decipher Script)
Investigator (Gather Information, Search)
Magical Aptitude (Spellcraft, Use Magic Device)
Negotiator (Diplomacy, Sense Motive)
Nimble Fingers (Disable Device, Open Locks)
Persuasive (Bluff, Intimidate)
Self Sufficient (Heal, Survival)
Stealthy (Hide, Move Silently)
Other new feats:
Augment Summoning (requires Spell Focus - Conjuration) - Grants +4 to summoned creatures Str and Con
Improved Feint (requires Combat Expertise) - allows a feint in combat as a move action
Diehard (requires Endurance) - you remain conscious even if below 0 hp
Eschew Materials - cast spells without material components
Improved Counterspell
Improved Grapple (requires Improved Unarmed Strike) - +4 bonus on grapple checks, and you provoke no AoO
Snatch Arrows (requires Improved Unarmed Strike) - catch a deflected ranged attack
Natural Spell - druids can cast spells in wild shape form
Manyshot (requires Rapid Shot, Dex 17) - can shoot more than one arrow simultaneously)
Improved Precise Shot (requires Precise Shot, Dex 19) - ignores any partial cover or concealment
Improved Overrun (requires Power Attack) - +4 bonus to overrun, no AoO
Improved Shield Bash (requires Shield Proficiency) - retain shield bonus to AC when shield bashing
Tower Shield Proficiency (requires Shield Proficiency) - no armor check penalty on attack rolls
Greater Spell Focus - stacks an extra +1 if you have Spell Focus
Greater Spell Penetration - +4 to defeat SR
Two-Weapon Defense (requires Two-Weapon Fighting) - off-hand weapon grants +1 shield bonus to AC
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (requires Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, BAB+11, Dex 19) - gain third off-hand attack
Greater Weapon Focus (requires Weapon Focus with weapon, Ftr level 8) - +2 on attack rolls with selected weapon
Greater Weapon Specialization (requires Greater Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization with weapon, Ftr level 12) - +4 to damage with selected weapon
Widen Spell - doubles spell’s area
Other changes:
Ambidexterity has been incorporated into Two-Weapon Fighting and no longer exists on its own
Expertise is now Combat Expertise
Weapon Finesse no longer applies to specific weapons or attack forms, and now applies to all of the creature’s applicable attacks
Sunder is now Improved Sunder
Feats in the MM:
Control Shape (for infected lycanthropes only)
Ability Focus - adds +2 to the DC for a specified attack
Awesome Blow (uh huh huh uhuh, OK, I just had to laugh at the name)
Craft Construct (monsters probably won’t have this feat though, but this allows someone to create golems and automatons)
Empower Spell-Like Ability
Flyby Attack
Hover
Improved Natural Armor
Improved Natural Attack
Multiattack
Multiweapon Fighting
Quicken Spell-Like Ability
Snatch
Wingover
Space/Reach:
Not much needs to be changed here. Just make sure the entry conforms to this information based on Size (unless there’s a good reason for it not to):
Fine: ½ ft / 0 ft
Diminutive: 1 ft / 0 ft
Tiny:2 ½ ft / 0 ft
Small: 5 ft / 5 ft
Medium:5 ft / 5ft
Large: 10 ft / 10 ft (5 ft if long)
Huge: 15 ft / 15 ft (10 ft if long)
Gargantuan: 20 ft / 20 ft (15 ft if long)
Colossal: 30 ft or more / 30 ft or more (20 ft or more if long)
Environment:
This is just Climate/Terrain renamed. The only likely change here will be that if the creature has the Extraplanar subtype, its home plane needs to be listed in this space.
Treasure, Alignment, and Advancement:
There will probably be little or no changes involved in these spaces, but as always be on the lookout just in case there needs to be.
Challenge Rating:
It doesn’t hurt to suggest a new CR. If you wish to recalculate it, please share with me your findings, and how you came to them.
Level Adjustment:
I’ll be honest with you: at the moment, I have no idea how to calculate this! If you know, you’ll have to share with me so that I can learn!
Monster’s Description and Combat Sections
Most of this will not change at all. I may remove or add to certain sections of its description as I see fit, if I think it will help the monster’s usefulness.
Each monster in the new MM has an italicized one-paragraph description that the DM can read to the players - I want this on the CC too, and I want you to help me write it!
The “Characters” section for each potential playable PC race will either need to be written or rewritten, using those in the MM as an example.
There will be no Tactics Round By Round section on the CC - although I may decide to include it if you write it for me. I am terrible at tactics, and you would laugh at me if I tried to write that myself.
I have heard that the Construction rules and costs for Constructs have changed; anyone care to enlighten me on what this entails?
That is all for now; this guide will be updated as you address new issues for me.
Ban thats you know.
Ok heres some of what I know (also off the new char sheet)
Base Attack Bonus + Strength Modifier + Size Modifier + Misc Modifer = Grapple Modifier
BaB you know that
Strength yes you know that
Size ill post one that
Misc is from feats and other things
on size its +4 for each size bigger then medium
-4 for each size smaller then medium
On page 156 under grapple check it has the fallowing chart.
Ciolossal +16
Gargantuan +12
Huge +8
Large +4
Medium +0
Small -4
Tiny -8
Diminutive -12
Fine -16
thats the special size modifier for grapple checks.
As we know we add all that up in one flat number.
Krishnath
First Post
Boz: I will try my hand on a few of the creatures, if you don't mind. I just need to know where I should send the revisions.
Where should we post what creatures we will convert over to 3.5, as to prevent multiple people from converting the same CC critter from 3 to 3.5?
I intend to convert the dragons first, then I might try a few others, dependant on what's left
Where should we post what creatures we will convert over to 3.5, as to prevent multiple people from converting the same CC critter from 3 to 3.5?
I intend to convert the dragons first, then I might try a few others, dependant on what's left
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
actually, i was thinking of doing that on the forums, starting in a day or two. i'll start a new thread, ask which ones you all want to do first. then i will post the original stats, some of my comments, and then ask you guys how to go about it. that way, everyone that wants to gets to help! i will also be advertising it on the NG board and NKL, and probably stick a link in my sig and on my site.
i'll start a new thread, ask which ones you all want to do first. then i will post the original stats, some of my comments, and then ask you guys how to go about it. that way, everyone that wants to gets to help! i will also be advertising it on the NG board and NKL, and probably stick a link in my sig and on my site. 
